Aside from the ridiculous tier to reach Onyx, is there any real reason Seer can't be Reawakened?
grendelwulf
✭✭✭✭✭
in General
I'm sorry, it just bothers me there are two seperate Stat Lines for discovering portals and one includes the other. Is there any real harm in bringing the medal back when Pokemon Go players are already doing most of the heavy lifting as far as submitting and approving? Bad submissions are already being made (and mostly rightfully rejected). Giving us the medal back isn't going to make it any worse.
Tagged:
11
Comments
1. Dinosaurs.
2. Afraid of not getting that onyx.
3. Afraid that it will stimulate bad proposals, in a significant amount to surpass the 1000x more from pGo
4. There's already a badge for that, is recon
5. If more people get stimulate to submit it will slow down the approval of my own proposal
I think I just stated all possible reasons (if not all, the top5 at least) that will follow next:
Leave Seer alone. Just leave it already. Please.
More importantly, it's gold on my profile, and I dislike the fact that I can't advance it.
I would be platinum already.
But I realized a new reason: Niantic is afraid the it will stimulate more proposals than reviewers can review.
Probably because it won't be possible to get up high on that anymore, moat things that can be pois either are or are in voting or in the queue, id be lucky if I could find 50 things within 50 miles of me that I could submit
Oh I'm still submitting every appropriate POI I see. Seer didn't change that. I just want to make a gold not be gold.
I have 0 seer points, but more than 500 portals discovered, and I want my platinum Seer also :)
They CAN tune it down. Have anyone in the world achieved it?
If that was a factor they wouldn't have lowered pogo submissions to level 38.
There was an agent from Japan who got it in the early days of Ingress. I'm not sure if it's been done by anybody else though.
Count me in with the pro-bring back Seer camp, while also reducing onyx to a more reasonable level (1,000-2,000). The fears of bad submissions flooding the system were legitimate 5-7 years ago. Would bad submissions increase if Seer were brought back? Yes, but I don't think to levels that would overwhelm the system. The player base is much smaller now than it was in 2015. I've pretty much retired from wayfarer, but would be interested in getting back into it if I knew it would help teammates advance their Seer badges. I would also have more incentive to stop and submit good candidates rather than drive by them because stopping would be too much of a hassle for no reward.
Truth is that there is a finite number of potential wayspots. Which for Seer doesn't make it possible to get onyx.
When we got word that Seer would be locked, the lead up meant that a lot of really silly nominations got through. So many bus stops (legitimate murals on bus stops)
Tui mural bus stop
Tui mural bus stop
Etc etc
I have only got gold Seer, which is kind of annoying, but have long got over it
Pokemon go players are still nominating rubbish, which is still going through, and many legitimate wayspots get rejected
Who should get the badge, the ingress player who submitted it first and and it rejected or the poke player who rejected then submitted it themselves and got there mates to approve it......
Нихуя не понял.
I have been able to read some comments from some agents and I am particularly in agreement on some points. Why not implement the seer perhaps by lowering the points in such a way as to give the "reward" to those who open new portals? In the last period I have been helping to open portals in areas where at most 1 or 2 have been opened, I might as well not care about sending requests since I do not receive anything in return, but I do it for the good of the community and with the hope that when a new agent opens the scanner, sees many portals to level on, and maybe doesn't clear the game after a few hours. From my point of view we need to encourage those who work for free to expand the community, even a trivial medal is good as a reward.
Why can't we have non-tiered Seer?
Non-Tiered wouldn't really change much. But better tiers would get people in the submission habit, without the ridiculous submissions to "get 5000".
This would generate people submitting, but without a ridiculous "unobtainable" end goal.
If you really wanted to make things better, you could also tie it to the review agreements.
Recon would still be the high requirement, but this would encourage people to review and submit.
I can give you an excellent reason why this is a bad idea right now.
There is currently a massive imbalance between the number of people submitting new wayspot candidates and the number who are reviewing them. The review queues are often backed up for months and in many areas nothing will ever get reviewed unless it's upgraded, and this causes a lot of frustration among players. Niantic really shouldn't exacerbate the problem by creating incentives to submit more stuff until they've solved the issue of review capacity.
@Hosette You massively overestimate how many submissions are from Ingress vs PoGo given that you can buy a level 38 PoGo account for a few dollars. I wouldn't be surprised if it's 1000:1. The Ingress acceptance rate is generally much higher I'm sure.
Opening Seer again is entirely a non-issue.
We already have incentives to review. Why would incentives to submit be any more effective?
The last time i'm get info, PoGo player using much ingress account to making new wayspot. Because just ingress can make you submitted a new candidate (just ingress can use gallery for submit new candidate) , edit location, and edit description ( for influence) not on location.
In fact, picture always from GSV, google or someone who want and sometime this bad actor making fake gsv from another place and submit new wayspot.
The bad wayspot always approved and sometimes it's even worse to appear as the best candidate on the wayfarer website. Because this bad actor not just one people with much id ingress and PoGo, but to many players work together in one group
@Hosette's point is that there aren't enough incentives to review. Currently queues world wide are lagging massively, I have nominations that are over one year old, others have nominations much older. Encouraging to submit more will only further clog up the system. How do you think those badges would work if nothing gets accepted within a year (without upgrades)? They'll never move, then you're back to the core issue: not enough reviewers.
You might say people would then review more to get the upgrades, that might be true for a short time. But see how long you last looking at pointless ineligible trees, footpaths, TV's inside people's homes, etc. You'll get demotivated and sick of reviewing real quick. Then we get back to square one.
Not to mention further incentive for submissions will most likely see more **** added to the system (especially if people just want to get a badge). At the end of the day, more reviewers is what is needed.
Personally I would be happy to see Seer return, as I'm currently sitting on 666 portals discovered with another 80+ in queue.
I understand the concerns raised by the disproportion between people submitting and people reviewing, but I think those can be addressed by redefining de concept of "Seer Points" using the same line of thought already expressed by @Perringaiden, in which submissions are tied to the review agreements.
Correct me if I'm misssing something, but back in the day when Seer was alive there was also an associated stat, visible today in the profiles of older agents, in which 1 Seer Point = 1 Portal Discovered. Nowadays the difference between these two stats is just that Seer Points refer to portals discovered only during the Seer Medal period.
But what if Seer Medal returned and the stat was updated so that 1 Seer Point = 1 Portal Discovered + 20 Agreements ?
I wrote 20 as an example, of course it can be whatever number Niantic finds more appropriate... the point is that agents would have an incentive to submit responsably, while helping drain queues in their areas of choice.
Additionaly the medal description could be changed to something in the lines of "Discover and successfully submit new portals in synchrony with beneficial portal reviews". Anyway, these are just some of my humble personnal thoughts, not sanctioned by any higher instance 😅
@oscarc1 Just this week I got back the results for two things I submitted on December 27, 2018-- both accepted but too close to existing portals to go live. It's a bummer because that would have been my fourth country and third continent where I'd created a portal.
As for the state of the queues, yes most of what is being submitted is from PoGo players... either using PoGo accounts or Ingress accounts that they leveled or bought for the sole purpose of submitting stuff. I wrote some stuff about this on the Wayfarer forum but I'm in favor of giving people very limited submission ability and then they can earn more by reviewing... in much the same way that they review now. If we could get the submission/review system in balance I'd be in favor of opening Seer again.
Yet somehow giving the same incentives to submit would create a massive problem?
What you're both admitting, is that there are inherent incentives to submit that have NOTHING AT ALL to do with the badge and reincluding it would barely be a blip on the issue that already exists.
People submit many portals for personal gain and environmental density. Just like the rate of submission didn't go down when they killed off Seer, reinstituting it won't make it rise dramatically.
So if you want to increase reviewers, focus on adding incentives to review instead of claiming an irrelevant element is somehow going to 'break the system'.
What you're both admitting, is that there are inherent incentives to submit that have NOTHING AT ALL to do with the badge and reincluding it would barely be a blip on the issue that already exists.
My incentive to nominate is simply for the exploration. I love going to places that barely have any portals and finding all the hidden gems. It makes a fun day out.
So if you want to increase reviewers, focus on adding incentives to review instead of claiming an irrelevant element is somehow going to 'break the system'.
The Wayfarer system is already broken lol One only needs to peruse the Wayfarer forums for a short time, or actually spend a short time reviewing to know this.
Like I said, I'm all for Seer (and hopefully an instant Onyx with tier adjustments), but the bigger problem to deal with is reviewing. Currently there are too many submissions and not enough reviewers, so if Seer is to be brought back then we need more people reviewing. Otherwise bringing back Seer will be nothing but an unobtainable badge and nominations will stay in queue forever.
I mean the rate did go down permanently - 14 every 13 days or 28 during the redacted and Prime scanner overlap
@Perringaiden My point is that when you have a ginormous dumpster fire of a problem you should put fire extinguishers on sale, not firewood.
Given that Seer will incentivise people to want their portals to be reviewed, you're extremely short sighted in thinking that it won't encourage those people submitting, to review to gain upgrades and fast track thier submissions. But sure. Keep thinking the same old outdated thoughts.