At least this update is live on https://wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/help
Quite frankly if it is a grammar issue and they have solid proof it is what it is and they are not violating anything why can't the locals fix it? If it is bad someone will fix it. I think the problem is the misinformation that edits never get approved they do it can take from days to years but eventually they get a response.
Yep, it says/said in the guide that a bad photo and bad wording can be corrected later by other players, so what you quoted is another homemade guideline plucked out of thin air / pulled out of their backside.
My 2 cents in.
Got muted yesterday because I disagreed with Helen on the 40m guideline. When I asked her for some proof on what she was implying, she said they have a secret conversation with Niantic, and she can't show any info, as it's private, but we're supposed to take her word for it. 2 minutes later the comments were closed on the whole post and she deleted all her and my comments.
@NianticCasey, since you're in there anyway, please at least smack them down off their high horse. Even if by any chance you guys do have a way of discussing things with them, saying that they alone know for sure things that the rest of us don't, plus their attitude toward the people that actually want to give advice puts you guys in a bad-ish light.
If Niantic is giving guidelines to the Facebook Admins to dispence at their leisure when the Admins have already shown to already advice people to go against the guidelines and silence those who promote the guidelines, then what the heck is Niantic even doing? It's like they don't even care about the POI database anymore.
I seriously doubt that anyone from Niantic is actually telling them anything. They most probably just lied about it, hence the deleting of the comments, so nobody can see what she said.
Even if by some fluke they are in touch with someone from Niantic, why would Niantic tell ONLY them certain things and not announce it to the community? It's not like they're some kind of influencers that everyone listens to.
So I'll stick with my POV and say that they're lying through their teeth just so naive people will listen to them.
And that's from someone who runs the wayfarer Discord. Scary stuff.
Yeah, uh. What now?
That might explain it. Most of them are that way, in my experience. The "power" goes straight to their heads. The xfac Telegram one even uses the name "you lost a star". It's all, what can I reject you for?
Are you seriously saying a persons IGN reflects how they review? Thats an arrogant assumption
I didn't say it's their in-game name. I'm assuming it's the name they've chosen for their telegram profile. That being the case, what other interpretation is there for "you lost a star"?
Well you assumed totally wrong then, so your interpretation is also in error.
@NianticCasey would it be possible to have these kinds of clarifications written out on the Wayfarer criteria clarifications instead of clarified by random people in private conversations that no one can see?
A lot of things brought by that user later and in other threads contradict other Niantic statements on pedestrian access.
I discussed this with a Niantic rep before posting.
Should we consider this group the new source of Ingress/Wayfarer AMAs, in response to the lack of any update on them in here?
Nothing in the post in the screenshot contradicts the pedestrian access rules. That's exactly what that guidelines means. I don't know about anything else they've said though.
A big concern is claiming to have special access to Niantic reps for clarifications but keeping proof of said clarifications private. Especially for a group with admins with a history of lying about clarifications and muting people who correct them.
"I am not willing to make private conversations public" but I'm willing to interpret what they say directly to me and share it as I want and continue speaking as though I have special insider privileges.
I think she left that second part out.
I personally would love more clarification on what defines "safe pedestrian access." I think it would help everyone in the reviewing community, myself included, to see more specifics coming from Niantic.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of that. It's not personal information if it's just a rule clarification. If she would like to use Niantic as a cosign on her words she needs to back it up. She's an ingress player too if I remember correctly, she should know better.
Are you people still talking about this? What a bunch of know it all busy bodies. If you don't like the group, leave it. You are harping on one specific group as if it is the only one with problems. Get over yourselves.
She posted this as her convo with a Niantic Rep for those who want to see.
There is a point where it is far better to reject the photo / title etc and let someone else submit, or the original submitter to resubmit.
By your logic, a portal called AAA with a black picture, could be acceptable, because "we can fix it later".
In Patti's defense, it looks to me like she is doing her best to post helpful information. I can also vouch that the Niantic rep does set up private chats with the moderators of the groups and that he asks in return for privacy as to his identity, which is absolutely reasonable. While she is not able to post the entire chat with him, since that would violate his asked privacy, it looks like all she is claiming is that she wrote the guide and informational tips and then ran it past him prior to posting it. Essentially it is her words and interpretation and she asked him for a thumb's up on it to make sure he didn't have any corrections to make in advance.
My only real issue with all of this, and one I messaged Patti about, is the accessibility of the info. Due to the group in question having banned a large number of community members for reasons such as posting links to the AMA guidelines (which the Niantic rep later re-posted) many people are cut off from updates and info like this. In addition, while Patti is doing her best, I am sure, to turn the community around many feel alientated by the other moderators. It only takes one moderator to selectively delete posts and ban members in order to skew information in the group.
No,the real issue (if all of this is true), is that Niantic prefers to give random people updates instead of updating the main wayfarer page themselves.
The only correct response the Niantic rep should have given was: Let me add this to the wayfarer help pages so you can link to it.
Oh hi! I see I'm being talked about.
The PoGo players who started that group reached out to me a couple of weeks ago and asked if I would help out as a moderator. I saw an opportunity to contribute, and agreed to it. The story of the conversation that was mentioned earlier was this: I saw someone argue that an EV charging station was invalid because there was no safe pedestrian access. I happened to see this literally ten minutes after plugging my car into a public charging station, quite safely I might add, and I nearly sprained my eyes rolling them. I've seen sooooo many people post utter BS about what has safe pedestrian access that I decided a Patti-style educational "rant" was in order. I discussed this in a private chat that included the moderators and a Niantic rep, got confirmation on the points I asked about, and was encouraged by the Niantic person to post it. I did.
I wasn't going to post a screenshot of a private group chat because that's rude, it would either require heavy editing or would identify the Niantic rep we're talking to, and because people don't take the same care when writing in private chats as they do in public posts. I figured I'd get attacked by someone for saying that I'd discussed it with someone from Niantic but I have a thick skin and no reason to lie about the conversation.
Honestly, I'm doing my best to keep the information accurate and the drama down.
 An EV charging station doesn't qualify, but safe pedestrian access is not the reason.
 I've seen people argue that a restaurant didn't have safe pedestrian access because the sidewalk wasn't wide enough for a big group to do a raid, that a bookstore didn't have safe pedestrian access because you entered from the parking lot...
 In private chats people say things like, "JFC, some twizot just argued that (potential waypoint) doesn't have safe pedestrian access because (ridiculous reason). I feel a rant coming on." In public that statement would be, "I've seen a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation about what is required for safe pedestrian access. I would like to clear up a few points of confusion."
Just curious, what's your agreement count?
My agreement count is 7607 on Wayfarer, 7605 in the scanner. Apparently a couple got dropped on the floor at some point in syncing them with Ingress.
@Hosette :wave: thanks for showing up, glad you've got thick skin. A lot of what you have said clears things up for casual reviewers.
Obviously, parking lots could go case by case. But I'm really curious as to why you would suggest them to have safe spaces to play. I'm not familiar with an EV charging area, but if it's anything like a gas pump area, I'd have to respectfully disagree that it does not have "inherent" safe pedestrian access.
I've only been reviewing since June of 2019, so anything outside of current guidelines and AMAs would escape me, but everything I've read seems to indicate want for separation of player and vehicles. Personally, I would not want to encourage children to run around a parking lot staring at their phones, nor adults to rush in also staring at their phones on behalf of a POI in any platform.
I agree people take it overboard when concerned with parks or grassy fields. Also, one of my first rejected nominations was a pollinator garden with signs and seating area in the median of a low speed residential area. It was before rejection reasons were provided, but I have to assume it's because there was no crosswalk. It initially baffles me because I walk, jog, and bike on it almost daily, but heck I'd even 1* it for pedestrian access if I reviewed it.
Honestly, yes, and no. We have years of AMA responses that did not make it into the guidelines. Some people like to argue that it should all be included in the guidelines, but frankly, that would be a massive amount and be too much for people to really process. Things in the guidelines must be condensed somewhat and then clarifications are sometimes needed. I am sure that Niantic has a massive job trying to come up with clear, concise, consistent, and understandable guidelines. The problem with the whole process is that the minute anything is released officially, everyone screenshots it, analyzes it, misinterprets some of it, argues about it.... So they have to be very VERY careful what gets published. I applaud them trying another route and trying to assist a player run group and try to keep them on the right track without having the resources to actually manage the group. It's unfortunate that things started the way they did, and I'm just as eager as anyone else for better guidelines and clarifications. But what they're doing also makes sense.
And thanks @Hosette for your efforts! I am not jealous of the major task you've undertaken for yourself!
Pedestrian access: when I step out of my car, am I there?
@Gendgi Can you think of an open-to-the-public gas pump that you can't safely walk up and touch? It would be impossible to use the pump if you couldn't do that. (I'm not arguing that gas pumps are legitimate submissions. I'm just using them as an example.)
The qualification is that the submission is safe to walk to. It is not required that the submission safe for a group of people to cluster around mashing buttons wildly while not paying attention to their surroundings. I wouldn't encourage children to run around gas stations staring at their phones, but I also believe that people should exercise a degree of personal responsibility. I've certainly gone to or toward portals and then decided that the location was not currently safe for me to access, though at another time it would have been fine. Sure, people do stupid things sometimes but that doesn't mean that the location is inherently unsafe.
Look up from your phone when you are walking around, ensure that if you stop and stand somewhere you are in a safe place, that you're not obstructing vehicle or pedestrian traffic, that you are paying attention to your surroundings. If you have children that are playing games you should be responsible for oversight and for teaching them these things.
At the same time, I was not necessarily arguing that parking lots are safe places to play. My assertion was that a business that is accessed by walking through its parking lot to the front door fundamentally has safe pedestrian access. If you couldn't walk up to the door of the business they would quickly have a big "OUT OF BUSINESS" sign out front.
 I know of a mountain that has three helicopter search-and-rescue missions for Ingress. The mountain has also been safely climbed by plenty of Ingress players and many non-players. Is the mountain fundamentally unsafe? For a skilled climber who comes prepared? No. For someone who attempts to climb it during a severe heat alert without proper preparation? Not so safe.