thank you @NianticCasey
I guess "paintball" and such group activities is officially disallowed now, unless you can find yourself a "travel guide" that features it.
@NianticCasey Will this guide also be posted directly in Wayfarer?
Acceptable: Eateries that have been featured prominently in travel guides, those with historical or cultural significance, or establishments that are popular tourist destinations. Establishments that serve alcoholic beverages like bars and pubs are acceptable.
So I guess the next question is what is considered a travel guide? Would TripAdvisor be counted as travel guide. If an eatery was featured in the local newspaper, would that count? Would a state tourism site, such as https://visitwv.com/ be counted as a travel guide.
Edit: If a state or regional tourism website is classified as a travel guide, what about county tourism website, example: http://visitwyomingcountywv.com/
Time to make GearGlidersGtravelGuides dot gom
gtravelguides.com is shorter, (somewhat) easier to spell and remember, and not taken yet
Got a few restaurants that could use a Good Review on your new website.
Also everyone just for context, this is what was promised:
So I guess that does mean we should reject everything within 40m of PRP and they bungled the wording on it back in September.
How people are going to determine 40m when reviewing will be fun to see. (just kidding, it's going to suck)
@NianticCasey appreciate the guide, but if possible can we get slightly more clarification on pools?
Acceptable: Pools that have local historical or cultural significance beyond being a pool. For example, a pool that a local Olympic medal winner trained at would be eligible.
I understand the desire to put a stop to swimming pool submissions at neighborhood clubhouses and apartment complexes and hotels, but is this to say that municipal pools at public parks are not eligible? If this is the guidance I will accept it even if I don't like it, but this feels like a strange exclusion when compared to less visually/culturally significant aspects of a park like a playground or tennis court.
Sometimes I think Niantic doesn't just know a pool from a hole in the ground
I think "community centers" in the reject section covers municipal pools.
If it's just a pool, it's a no. If it's significant for something other that being a pool/gathering place then it may be eligible.
I think it's a silly rule as all other community recreation areas fit guidelines but I'm glad they put out a solid guideline one way or another.
Generic nomination for the park overall as long as the photo includes a signboard of the park
I have never seen a park in germany which has a signboard...
And yeah, travel guide in like what? Here resaturants are featured in some local .pdf news things and on maps which stand around here and there.
@NianticCasey This is helpful; many thanks!
Could you, however, confirm that "private residences" refers to single family residences, and not multifamily dwellings (as always made clear in the OPR guidelines)?
"Non-unique nominations within the park: trash cans, drinking water fountains, bike racks etc."
Oh poor TimerClock :v
Thanks for the update! Most of this is very helpful and reasonable!!
I, too, am confused by the pool decision. Pools are better exercise than playgrounds and pools in community centers/public parks boggle my mind to not be accepted. Why wouldn't they be? Can we get some explanation for this seemingly random and counter-intuitive decision?
Also.. the 40 meter thing.... I know this is from a lawsuit. But the wording on this clarification implies that we should not accept murals and sculptures along the main street of my town, that are put there to be points of interest, simply because a block away are some row houses and residences. 40 meters is a HUGE area and MOST wayspots are within 40 meters of a residence. I believe if this were to be actually enforced completely it would nullify about 80% of the wayspots in town. The way the guideline is written on the current wayfarer site at least makes more sense and is reasonable.
"Please be sure to closely review nominations whose real-world location appears to be within 40 meters of private, single-family residential property, and nominations whose real-world location appears to be in a neighborhood park. To be clear, nominations should be rejected if their real-world location appears to be on private, single-family residential property or might encourage people to go onto private property (e.g., because the real-world location is at the end of a private driveway)."
I interpret this to say don't approve wayspots in stupid, problematic places, or actually ON PRP, and assume that if homeowners complain later, ones near PRP will get removed. This seems reasonable and makes sense. Banning anything within 2 blocks of a home.... does not make sense...
I guess stupid does literally go all the way to the top of this wayfarer thing. Wow.
You beat me to the punch, thanks for posting!
Can you confirm this was the big update? Also will this be added to the Wayfarer site? Currently it’s only on the help site which is separate.
Guys I'm going to be direct.
This is not at all helpful.
The lack of clarification about anything vaguely edge case, the lack of example pictures, the lack of even say a hundred example candidates to help clarify, etc, this is just a weak list of things already known by most reviewers.
The only new things achieved here are oddly excluding common pools and taking the least game-focused approach to parks which excludes many players from safe public POIs in areas where parks don't have signs.
It's less specific and less interesting than the previous clarifications log page which you took down.
I honestly expected that you guys were going to put together a legitimate, in-depth, fairly explicit guideline to work by. What is a Travel Guide? Is that some American thing? Something people used before the Internet? I'm in my mid-30s and have never seen or read one of those and wouldn't know where to find one. This was written with no understanding of the complexities that people are dealing with in submitting and reviewing in this system, trying to do work for you for free, it's not even vaguely on-point for what needs addressing and official direction.
As direct as possible because of how many hours of my life go into trying to achieve basic things with this system, this is not at all helpful. It's not even vaguely in depth. It feels like 10 minutes worth of off the cuff thinking, with very little concern for actually getting the games playable in a timely matter.
Given how often you flip-flop, how little apparent concern you have for this stuff, and how good community pools are for regional towns, this doesn't inspire any reason to take official 'guidance' on this (or really, a vague 10 minute writeup with very little effort, which will likely be contradicted in a week) into account while we pull out our hair trying to do this part of the work for free for the sake of the player base, Please, be more specific, be in depth, make a list, show example pictures, explain the rationale of things to help with edge cases, and please please please, reiterate to reviewers that the goal is to get safe, playable places into the games before the eventual heat-**** of the universe, don't focus on the negativity of rejecting which thrives in some reviewer discussion communities and drives a lot of people away.
To expand on the above post - I could before link the wayfarer update log in submissions statements to practically achieve something, showing that footbridges are acceptable candidates, or gazebo-like structures. This cannot be linked to for anything productive, it's just repeating the few simplest cookie cutter cases which everybody knows and has no issue with, it's not helpful for anything we're dealing with. Additionally, because of the supporting statement character limit, trying to link to this and a 'travel guide', if we find one (are those websites? print magazines?), wouldn't be possible. It's just not practically useful for what we're dealing with here, and not coming from an understanding of submitting and reviewing issues.
Wait, it's Feb, why is this labelled as the January update?
My issue with the update is two things:
1: There is no tool for the reviewer to judge 40m accurately and in the United States we don't even use the metric system,
2: The pool guidance has issues. I don't think the community cares if an famous athlete visits there to be honest that is just a coincidence and is irrelevant to the pool to begin with and how is a pool cultural if a famous athlete just happens to have used it? While on the other hand excluding public pools and recreation center pools is upsetting because they are cultural gathering places and are important especially in warmer climates during the summer months its not about the pool its about having fun beating the heat. The community pools are normally part of the park maybe ask for signs? I usually submit the splash pads as well that are playgrounds that basically emit water for people to relax and have fun and stay cool in the heat. I normally treat the public pools as an lower budget community operated water park similar to hurricane harbor. A lot of the pools have slides and other amenities and are not just a hole in the ground with water.
I also do like a few things added:
The proximity guidance when voting or making edits.
The clarification on what qualifies as a theater.
The playground one is nice I do think there could be a little more detail. I think the wording for structure should include the pit area for said playground now maybe where parks have a toddler playground and a playground for children aged a few years older to pre-teens the visually distinct part should take effect if the structures are of significant distance so depending on the reviewers interpretation I think there could be a gray area like say you have a princess castle and a pirate ship if they have a significant distance they should both be valid imho. I also have seen swings that are all ability so everyone can have fun on the playground I feel these may qualify as a point of interest due to the fact not everyday do we see swings made to add a inclusive experience for children that would not have access otherwise with a normal swing. Maybe I might be biased due to the fact I have a sibling that could not walk due to having a childhood illness that prevented her from walking.
In the case of outdoor pools anyway, maybe it's because it'd mean people hanging around poking at their phones near kids that have next to no clothes on.
Now we are to reject any candidates 40 meters from Single Family Private Residential Property (per Caseys comment on the Global Wayfarer Facebook group about the garage door murals) and also 40 meters from any private residence (a structure that someone lives in)? That excludes most of a city except very large parks and a business district where nobody lives. Previous guidance was nothing ON SFPRP and closely review things within 40 meters of SFPRP to ensure the Wayspot would not encourage trespassing. This new guidance is extremely restrictive. I guess I can go see if there is anything to submit in the zoo.
I just had yet another local hotspot and hidden gem by every definition rejected as a generic business.
I kept it all very simple because unfortunately I've found the more that reviewers are required to stop and think, the less likely they are to accept just about anything. Website links, rules, AMA citations, etc, nearly always are met with rejections, whereas just calling things gazebos and playgrounds even when they're more-so something else is what gets them through after many attempts.
Title: The Boat Shed
Description: One of the Sunshine Coast's most iconic attractions, a former boat shed was turned into a restaurant to take advantage of the unparalleled views at the mouth of the river.
Supporting Info: This is one of the best candidates I know of for the local hotspot attraction. It's always mega busy with outdoor seating along the river, and has been around for over 20 years now with a unique story and lots of history. The web reviews are all exceedingly high.
Any reviewer who googled it would quickly find that it has the 'place with a cool story' aspect down which Niantic asks for, though I didn't link it due to my more-often-than-not negative outcome when doing so: https://www.theboatshed.com.au/our-story/
What we need: The Review page needs a big announcement box saying that there's been too many valid candidates rejected as 'Generic Businesses' lately. Please see this linked page of 100 valid and invalid local hotspot examples which we selected to show the intended voting behaviour. We will be auditing accounts during the next few weeks to ensure that incorrect rejections are not being given (Doesn't matter if it's true, just say you will and scare people into not wasting submitters' time).
The hotspot guidance page would be a dedicated grid with several examples per row, with a photo and short explanation per item. 50 Valid things in one section at the top, and 50 invalid things in a section below. Gradually work through basic to tough examples of each. e.g. Start the invalid examples with something like McDonalds and a short description of "Common Chain Restaurant", work up to tougher cases.
Just the other day Bansky did a mural on a side of a PRP in Bristol, UK.
People are flocking to see it, the owner is happy with people coming to take photos of it, in another article it states that she spent all day talking to people who visited it.
A local community association even tweeted telling people to go and visit it.
Yet this is ineligible as a portal.
Pubs and Restaurants that serve alcohol (including mall food courts)
I'm reading this as two statements.
Restaurants must have been featured in a guide etc. To be eligible.
All bars and pubs are eligible.
On the second part I think they just mean they're not excluded due to serving alcohol and can be accepted if they fit other criteria.
The travel guide part is not something I understand at all though, and I don't see how they expect reviewers to be aware of it even if it is ever given a coherent real world English explanation and definition. After a few hour's thought the only explanation I can think of is that the success of getting the Pokemon IP has made Niantic so fantastically successful that they have no connections to how most people live and keep thinking people are going to museums and have the time and money to travel alongside or care about some kind of niche guidebook product, and they only interact with the ultra rich players who fly into events etc and have no understanding of the majority of their potential customers who they keep misfiring in connecting with. They can't understand the need for unsigned parks etc being passed just as functionally valid because they truly don't have any experience with that part of the world, and think people can just burn fuel and time driving on over to another park. They don't care about events being scheduled at awful limited windows which conflict with job schedules and responsibilities and people effectively missing out forever, because that part of the world is invisible to them. It finally all clicked when they started talking about 'travel guides' like something real people should know about. Even on other forums among their most dedicated players, nobody knows **** that is.
It means the same criteria apply to both pubs and restaurants. Whether they serve alcohol is irrelevant. The mention of travel guides is also going to open up a lot of potential candidates that would otherwise be rejected as "generic business". Most states, provinces, regions, and even counties or cities will have a tourist website and businesses featured there will now qualify under this clarification.
But I have a feeling that trip planning websites, such as TripAdviser, Yelp, and Google Maps, won't count as "guides". But, you many still refer to them in the supporting statements, such as TripAdviser's rankings.
The one thing I do fear is that in order to limit the impact of "travel guides" altogether, certain individuals are going to insist that it recive a star rating from the Michelin Guide.