Question for you, if someone doesn’t care about the quality of their submission why should I care about the quality of my review of said submission?
Its one thing to have a minor text error that needs to be edited later and a totally other to submit a photo so dark that you can’t see any background details, or an upsidedown photo. Or something so far away you aren’t sure what the POI is.
I have now several times submitted as secondary photos ones which had been rejected by OPR/Wayfarer, including some where I'd had the gall to take the photo AT NIGHT when the POI was most gloriously lit up.
Those rejected photos are now the primary photo on these portals/wayspots. Because I care!
Since photo orientation is on the list of preset reject reasons, it's safe to assume that photos with poor orientation should be rejected for that reason.
Are you actually an ingress player, that you don't know that edits grant no AP, only new photos and new wayspots?
How is that forcing people to give up? Photo orientation can easily be seen and redone before you hit submit. If someone isn't paying attention then they don't deserve that waypoint, getting a rejection for photo orientation shouldn't make you want to give up, it should make you be more aware.
We have waited years for the ability to make new wayspots, is it that hard to take care to make them WELL? You can correct spelling errors in wayfarer after you get home, which I recommend always using to proofread what you typed while out. As for the photos, getting replacement photos on isn't as easy as doing it right the first time. You're saying you paid for gas to submit it, but you want an agent to have to pay for gas to go out and correct sloppy work? Sure, there's a difference between a mediocre photo, that could be something the nominator didn't notice on a phone screen, and a BAD photo like many I reject and 1*. Let's work together to make the wayspot network BETTER rather than adding more trash and expecting others to clean up afterwards.
Not demanding them to be better, just for them to learn from their mistakes, if they never get a bad photo rejected, how will they know to fix their mistakes?
Pokemon GO players can re-take photos, there's a large button asking you if you want to in the UI.
And no one here is, as you call it, "demanding perfection". We're just following guidelines for accurate and understandable photos & titles/descriptions. People learn by making mistakes. If people don't get rejections and feedback about the rejection, they won't approve. If people are spending their time and gas to submit stuff, they can take the time to make sure it's a good photo and type it out well.
We all have had our frustrations with bad rejects. Getting something labelled as a generic business or saying they can't find it on the map when it's very much not the case. Letting low quality submissions slide by that need constant edits to fix them is just going to bog the system down more with more needless edits that could have been fine if the submitters just fixed them in the first place.
Everyone can re-take photos. Everyone can fix the title and description in Wayfarer if they made typos. The system doesn't need constant edits to fix simple mistakes.
Actually before I submitted anything I researched the guidelines in detail, asked for advice, and I took extreme care so that even my very first submission is something I am very proud of. I have made some mistakes, minor misspellings, slight location inaccuracies when I tried to submit from home and there was tree cover. etc. And I, personally, go out and fix my own errors first, and then start correcting those of others. I have learned over time more and more about the guidelines and what makes good POI. Subtleties such as not submitting things in areas where the residents don't want trespassers. But it really isn't too much to ask that people take some time to do some basic research before wasting the time of reviewers.
Well, on an Android device all photos are taken via what amounts to a "plugin app". The default is the one provided with the OS, but you can select a different one at the OS-level.
As per AMAs, apps which allow you to effectively falsify your location (by way of taking a "photo" from your camera roll) were specifically called out as not kosher.
This is clear censorship, not moderation. Either agree with the admin, or get kicked out. No access to posts from NianticCasey when he posts updates there for members who were banned for posting corrections in good faith. And most of the members don't even know this is happening. They think that the opinions of these few represent the majority and they continue to blame "Bad reviewers" without understanding why their nominations violate the guidelines.
Jumping in here as I have had conversations with the moderators of this Facebook Group but by no means is this considered a "Niantic Official" page or anything of the sort. I don't see anywhere in the Group's description where this is stated but I could be missing it. If you do see this, please link me and I will ask the moderators to update their info.
The goal of my participation in this group is to address some of these misleading or inaccurate posts, since many of these players are not Ingress players and we don't yet have a unified place for Wayfarer reviewers to interact cross-game, but I admittedly don't have much bandwidth to spend on it, and it seems as though some things are slipping through.
I'm currently working with the Wayfarer team to post a clarification on some of the more common questions we're receiving (also based on submissions to the form), and I hope that this information will address some of the rumors that are being floated here.
Thanks for your participation in the group and for your patience while we work out some of the wrinkles in the Wayfarer community. In the meantime, I'll put together a quick guide for photos, location markers and descriptions, since it seems as though this would be most useful for this group of newer reviewers.
Except most of these people who were participating in that group were banned by the admins by pointing out official guidelines on Niantic sources because it detracted from their personal goals.
You're trying to talk sense to people who take pride in being nonsensically difficult over things which don't matter to any living human and waste an enormous amount of people's time. It's kind of like going to an antivaxxer or creationist forum and trying to point out the practical meaning of the word theory. There's a reason most players I know avoid wayfarer forums like a plague. The shock they'd endure if they ever discovered how few players ever actually read a description when they've wasted how many hours agonizing over which 1* choice to pick because of a typo, as they heroically save us from an actual playable game before the servers are shut down.
That would be great! Any resources can help! Their description does not say they are official, but I have seen them hinting at the approval from Niantic, and also their use of your logos and names give many people the wrong impression. If you are in contact with the moderators can you please also talk to them about the blatant abuse within the group? The number of people who have been banned from the group continues to skyrocket. It is particularly upsetting that we have repeatedly caught them lying about why people were banned, and we've all been banned with no warning and for posts that were in no way violating their own rules. They are not only posting misinformation, they are blatantly telling people to disregard the AMA, in spite of your own posts telling us that they still apply, and using that to justify extreme interpretations of the guidelines.
Those of us who are banned would appreciate if you would also be sure to share any information, updates and resources you create with another group so that those of us who cannot, or chose not to participate in the group linked above can still have access? Would it be ok to invite you to the other group listed in my top post? @NianticCaseyhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/NianticWayFarer/ This newer group has moderators who have played both Ingress and Pokemon Go, but also who have more experience with the OPR process.
The goal of my participation in this group is to address some of these misleading or inaccurate posts, since many of these players are not Ingress players and we don't yet have a unified place for Wayfarer reviewers to interact cross-game, but I admittedly don't have much bandwidth to spend on it, and it seems as though some things are slipping through.
The problem is that Niantic has an extremely bad habit of letting misinformation spread for a very long time before finally setting the record straight. For example, how many weeks was TimerClock able to spew out blatant misinformation and even lies on these forums before you finally step in? If you are not correcting misinformation here, how do you expected to stop such misinformation on a Facebook group you don't even control? And if the Facebook moderators are the ones contributing to the spread of misinformation and you remain silent, people are going to take it as Niantic's implicit agreement to what the moderators say.
It's one thing to say that the Wayfarer team is working on clarifications. However, when there is such blatant misinformation being spread around, it needs to be corrected as quickly as possible. To remain silent or to state "we are working on it, but no comment at this time" is only giving those spreading the misinformation the tacit credibility they don't deserve.
Comments
Question for you, if someone doesn’t care about the quality of their submission why should I care about the quality of my review of said submission?
Its one thing to have a minor text error that needs to be edited later and a totally other to submit a photo so dark that you can’t see any background details, or an upsidedown photo. Or something so far away you aren’t sure what the POI is.
Temperatures are another reason on some photos being blurry. When people are cold it happens.
I have now several times submitted as secondary photos ones which had been rejected by OPR/Wayfarer, including some where I'd had the gall to take the photo AT NIGHT when the POI was most gloriously lit up.
Those rejected photos are now the primary photo on these portals/wayspots. Because I care!
Since photo orientation is on the list of preset reject reasons, it's safe to assume that photos with poor orientation should be rejected for that reason.
Are you actually an ingress player, that you don't know that edits grant no AP, only new photos and new wayspots?
How is that forcing people to give up? Photo orientation can easily be seen and redone before you hit submit. If someone isn't paying attention then they don't deserve that waypoint, getting a rejection for photo orientation shouldn't make you want to give up, it should make you be more aware.
You also have to remember it's not as easy as you say to fix a photo later. I challenge you to fix a photo without using an ingress account.
We have waited years for the ability to make new wayspots, is it that hard to take care to make them WELL? You can correct spelling errors in wayfarer after you get home, which I recommend always using to proofread what you typed while out. As for the photos, getting replacement photos on isn't as easy as doing it right the first time. You're saying you paid for gas to submit it, but you want an agent to have to pay for gas to go out and correct sloppy work? Sure, there's a difference between a mediocre photo, that could be something the nominator didn't notice on a phone screen, and a BAD photo like many I reject and 1*. Let's work together to make the wayspot network BETTER rather than adding more trash and expecting others to clean up afterwards.
Your first few months of submissions, I guarantee were not perfect. So how are you going to demand others be better than you?
Not demanding them to be better, just for them to learn from their mistakes, if they never get a bad photo rejected, how will they know to fix their mistakes?
People aren't learning from rejections because wrong rejections are being used on valid things.
Admin of the group openly admitting to violating the TOS as well as abusing the wayfarer system.... Lovely
Pokemon GO players can re-take photos, there's a large button asking you if you want to in the UI.
And no one here is, as you call it, "demanding perfection". We're just following guidelines for accurate and understandable photos & titles/descriptions. People learn by making mistakes. If people don't get rejections and feedback about the rejection, they won't approve. If people are spending their time and gas to submit stuff, they can take the time to make sure it's a good photo and type it out well.
We all have had our frustrations with bad rejects. Getting something labelled as a generic business or saying they can't find it on the map when it's very much not the case. Letting low quality submissions slide by that need constant edits to fix them is just going to bog the system down more with more needless edits that could have been fine if the submitters just fixed them in the first place.
Everyone can re-take photos. Everyone can fix the title and description in Wayfarer if they made typos. The system doesn't need constant edits to fix simple mistakes.
Zoom in of the "harassment" that got one member banned.
Actually before I submitted anything I researched the guidelines in detail, asked for advice, and I took extreme care so that even my very first submission is something I am very proud of. I have made some mistakes, minor misspellings, slight location inaccuracies when I tried to submit from home and there was tree cover. etc. And I, personally, go out and fix my own errors first, and then start correcting those of others. I have learned over time more and more about the guidelines and what makes good POI. Subtleties such as not submitting things in areas where the residents don't want trespassers. But it really isn't too much to ask that people take some time to do some basic research before wasting the time of reviewers.
There are apps people can use to bypass that limitation.
We aren't following the rules people have admitted to not even reading the FAQ. Scroll back.
That's a different issue.
It depends on when you submit and when the next day occurs. Because some submissions can be in voting quicker than others.
3rd party apps are against TOS.
Well, on an Android device all photos are taken via what amounts to a "plugin app". The default is the one provided with the OS, but you can select a different one at the OS-level.
As per AMAs, apps which allow you to effectively falsify your location (by way of taking a "photo" from your camera roll) were specifically called out as not kosher.
But yeah a lot of hot garbage is spread in that Facebook group.
This is clear censorship, not moderation. Either agree with the admin, or get kicked out. No access to posts from NianticCasey when he posts updates there for members who were banned for posting corrections in good faith. And most of the members don't even know this is happening. They think that the opinions of these few represent the majority and they continue to blame "Bad reviewers" without understanding why their nominations violate the guidelines.
Hi folks,
Jumping in here as I have had conversations with the moderators of this Facebook Group but by no means is this considered a "Niantic Official" page or anything of the sort. I don't see anywhere in the Group's description where this is stated but I could be missing it. If you do see this, please link me and I will ask the moderators to update their info.
The goal of my participation in this group is to address some of these misleading or inaccurate posts, since many of these players are not Ingress players and we don't yet have a unified place for Wayfarer reviewers to interact cross-game, but I admittedly don't have much bandwidth to spend on it, and it seems as though some things are slipping through.
I'm currently working with the Wayfarer team to post a clarification on some of the more common questions we're receiving (also based on submissions to the form), and I hope that this information will address some of the rumors that are being floated here.
Thanks for your participation in the group and for your patience while we work out some of the wrinkles in the Wayfarer community. In the meantime, I'll put together a quick guide for photos, location markers and descriptions, since it seems as though this would be most useful for this group of newer reviewers.
Except most of these people who were participating in that group were banned by the admins by pointing out official guidelines on Niantic sources because it detracted from their personal goals.
I'm sure those guides will also be made available on the Wayfarer Help page.
Thanks for checking in, @NianticCasey! We look forward to the guide updates.
You're trying to talk sense to people who take pride in being nonsensically difficult over things which don't matter to any living human and waste an enormous amount of people's time. It's kind of like going to an antivaxxer or creationist forum and trying to point out the practical meaning of the word theory. There's a reason most players I know avoid wayfarer forums like a plague. The shock they'd endure if they ever discovered how few players ever actually read a description when they've wasted how many hours agonizing over which 1* choice to pick because of a typo, as they heroically save us from an actual playable game before the servers are shut down.
That would be great! Any resources can help! Their description does not say they are official, but I have seen them hinting at the approval from Niantic, and also their use of your logos and names give many people the wrong impression. If you are in contact with the moderators can you please also talk to them about the blatant abuse within the group? The number of people who have been banned from the group continues to skyrocket. It is particularly upsetting that we have repeatedly caught them lying about why people were banned, and we've all been banned with no warning and for posts that were in no way violating their own rules. They are not only posting misinformation, they are blatantly telling people to disregard the AMA, in spite of your own posts telling us that they still apply, and using that to justify extreme interpretations of the guidelines.
Those of us who are banned would appreciate if you would also be sure to share any information, updates and resources you create with another group so that those of us who cannot, or chose not to participate in the group linked above can still have access? Would it be ok to invite you to the other group listed in my top post? @NianticCasey https://www.facebook.com/groups/NianticWayFarer/ This newer group has moderators who have played both Ingress and Pokemon Go, but also who have more experience with the OPR process.
Will there be anything done about the Admin who has admitted to violating TOS by using multiple accounts to review?
The goal of my participation in this group is to address some of these misleading or inaccurate posts, since many of these players are not Ingress players and we don't yet have a unified place for Wayfarer reviewers to interact cross-game, but I admittedly don't have much bandwidth to spend on it, and it seems as though some things are slipping through.
The problem is that Niantic has an extremely bad habit of letting misinformation spread for a very long time before finally setting the record straight. For example, how many weeks was TimerClock able to spew out blatant misinformation and even lies on these forums before you finally step in? If you are not correcting misinformation here, how do you expected to stop such misinformation on a Facebook group you don't even control? And if the Facebook moderators are the ones contributing to the spread of misinformation and you remain silent, people are going to take it as Niantic's implicit agreement to what the moderators say.
It's one thing to say that the Wayfarer team is working on clarifications. However, when there is such blatant misinformation being spread around, it needs to be corrected as quickly as possible. To remain silent or to state "we are working on it, but no comment at this time" is only giving those spreading the misinformation the tacit credibility they don't deserve.