Wayfarer Group on Facebook is Promoting Misinformation
ElfFromSpace
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Hi! I am getting increasingly concerned about a runaway facebook group. https://www.facebook.com/groups/2495067887480865/
This group uses Niantic logos, your names, giving people the impression that they are approved of by Niantic. @NianticCasey is a member and they have since posted that they have Niantic approval. However, their leadership has been promoting misinformation and giving poor advice about submissions. He likes to delete comments from anyone who disagrees with him, has banned dozens of ingress agents who joined in good faith to give feedback and tips, simply because they disagreed with some of that misinformation.
Today someone complained because a mural on the back of a private garage in an alley was rejected. He is still there, right now, giving advice telling that person to resubmit it and telling the reviewers in the group that it is a valid submission. Here you can see a response that I left telling people that it's not valid, and he has been repeatedly deleting any comment by anyone who tries to quote the AMA or clarify anything that disagrees with him. Please do something, this is completely out of hand and they're using your name for it!
For those wanting an alternative group, this one has now been founded with a commitment to not ban or silence people even if their opinions are not agreed with: https://www.facebook.com/groups/NianticWayFarer/
Comments
wrong
Should I consider the quality of the photo when analyzing a nomination?
If the photo is so poor-quality that you are unable to judge or verify the nomination, taken from a third party, or ineligible as defined in the acceptance criteria, provide a one-star vote for the question “Should this be a Wayspot?” and select the relevant rejection reason.
There is a hand full of people who can discuss on there. Then there is everyone else. Kind of similar to Forums where people chime in and bash people on here with the flip of a switch because its a posse feeling for a pack of wolves. Not much you can do as it is a private Facebook group and they will do what they want. They have ingress players on it and Niantic can monitor since they have access. It is more important to get wayfarer updated so the stupid contradictions with old AMA's that are not valid anymore stop. Honestly. There is so many contradictions in old AMA's that its crazy to have a discussion with some people on. Wayfarer is some of the most current information and people still reference an old AMA from longer than a year ago to rebuttal it. Sorry your old AMA is out of date and new information existing is contradicting it. Boom your are banned in a heart beat on some of the Facebook Pages, because they feel you shouldn't be disagreeing with an old AMA. Yet most ingress players refuse to learn wayfarer as well as they did OPR. They refuse to take a step back and look at what is written versus what is implied. Pokemon GO players are stuck in a whirlwind of chaos going on because they have some Pokemon go people that think they know everything and some Ingress players who think they know everything. With Niantic being crazy slow with updates to Wayfarer or Answers to Wayfarer questions. Honestly, I am surprised niantic doesn't seem to have a dedicated team of hundreds of people answering questions 24/7. As you are dealing with the world of people involved with submitting and not just one country or city. I think Wayfarer should have a Forum and not just ingress, so everyone can participate and be governed by Niantic in one spot for Wayfarer stuff.
In the meantime, I'd suggest checking out some of the other Facebook groups out there for Wayfarer, as there are a few. Until you find the one you like.
As much as it's a privately run Facebook group, it's unfortunately misleading. Most businesses have a Facebook site and I could see someone believing it's official. I would like to see someone from Niantic request they disclose on their about this group section that is unofficial or not run by Niantic itself.
Niantic Casey has posted on there before under an Official Niantic account saying they're working with the moderators on the page.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2495067887480865/permalink/2542782772709376/
But yeah, that Jamie Kay Admin just posts so much misleading and blatenently wrong information that just makes everything so much worse. They made a PSA post saying not to reject Nominatins for Low Quality Photos when they're taken at night, then shows their rejected Nomination of a sign that you can barely see because it's so dark out. That's just the tip of the iceberg, The fact that is has over 2500 members seeing this kind of stuff is worrisome.
Two other frequent/eternal arguments are,
I've tried my best, but I'm whelmed.
Photos, titles and descriptions can be edited by ingress agents. Why are people so hung up on that aspect. Not every person submitting is perfect. Not everyone is going to abuse the system as people assume on here. We shouldn't be killing submissions for something that really exists that a simple edit can allow. It is causing more of a backlog reviewing the same things over and over.
so you're suggesting we accept trash and then fix it? NO. i will continue to smash 1 star on your blurry dark photos taken from your car
That is what is written in wayfarer FAQ. So that is what niantic has already said is acceptable.
You are mistaking minor grammar errors and sightly bad pictures. If it's huge enough to make hard identify the location, it should get a lower rate. The submitter will learn with his mistakes and do a better job next time. But if any **** is accepted more **** will come.
I haven't seen that, can you elaborate on what Wayfarer FAQ has said and where it is?
Probably referring to this. https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/wayfarer/?p=web&s=how-to-review-wayspots&f=wayspot-review-faq
Can I edit a misspelling in the title or description?
At this time, reviewers cannot edit submissions beyond suggesting a new real-world location. If the title or description does not violate acceptance criteria, vote accordingly. Once the Wayspot is live, other Wayfinders will have an opportunity to submit an edit and suggest a better title/description.
and
Should I consider the quality of the photo when analyzing a nomination?
If the photo is so poor-quality that you are unable to judge or verify the nomination, taken from a third party, or ineligible as defined in the acceptance criteria, provide a one-star vote for the question “Should this be a Wayspot?” and select the relevant rejection reason.
Which literally say "Vote Accordingly" instead of "Accept and Edit later". With one of the suggested ways of Voting being 1-Star Reject
Photos require it to be so poor you can't make it out. If its orientation or a low photo but you can still figure out the nomination and confirm it exists than it should still be accepted and a photo edit later can occur. Edits earn ingress players more ap too.
Pokemon players can edit titles and descriptions worldwide. Photos are available in certain countries. As far as I am aware.
Yes, that group is extremely harmful and encourages completely ignoring the guidelines and manipulation of the portal network. When shown explicitly where it is listed via official Niantic resources, your posts are deleted, you are muted, and you are told to "quit making up your own rules."
They do this all using official Niantic logos and try to pass it off as an officially run Niantic page (even using a shadow account as the "official" admin) and is causing a large amount of misinformation to be spread.
If Niantic doesn't shut it down soon then they are going to end up needing to revoke submissions again before they get sued again.
So the group represent themselves as being an official and approved group from Niantic. The moderator and owners represent themselves as being an authority on the subject. They intentionally provide misinformation and abuse of powers daily, even hourly as to the criteria for approving waypoints. They are extremely aggressive in banning and removing the writing of anyone who disagrees with them. Especially the Jamie person. Niantic is in the group. By being in the group and posting in it they are giving their approval of it. The group needs to be shut down by Niantic because it infringes on their copyright by using their name and images, and also is disseminating misinformation in their name.
Also, that Jamie Kay guy. Just bans you or deletes your comments when you state the rules or facts
Yep, I got banned yesterday in response to the above comments I posted in the top message. I was not trolling, was not flaming anyone, was not violating a single one of their rules. Yet I was banned with no warning. When previous ingress agents were banned, the moderators lied, saying the banned people had blocked admin. I messaged Jamie Kay after I was banned and took a screenshot of that to validate that I had not blocked him, and instead he blocked me. The group is deliberately censoring members to try to skew reviewers and convince them to ignore the guidelines in favor of making pokestops everywhere.
I missed getting any screenshots of it, but last week there was a topic where they were encouraging people with multiple pokemon go accounts to review their own submissions using alts!
Niantic, if you wish to preserve the quality of your portal network, you need to take action, this is out of hand!
More misinformation!
The only Edit that grants Ingress players AP is Photo Contributions. All other types do not.
And there are specific reject reasons in Wayfarer Reviewing for both low-quality and orientation.
Group encourages spoofing, multi-accounting, placing wayspots on Private Residential Property, and Ingress bashing.
For what it's worth, from what I can tell @NianticCasey only posts announcements in that group, but does not engage in any conversations.
Wrong.
Should I consider the quality of the photo when analyzing a nomination?
If the photo is so poor-quality that you are unable to judge or verify the nomination, taken from a third party, or ineligible as defined in the acceptance criteria, provide a one-star vote for the question “Should this be a Wayspot?” and select the relevant rejection reason.
Low-Quality Photos
Eligible Wayspots with low-quality photos are ineligible, even if they meet all other acceptance criteria.
As for what constitutes a "low-quality photo"... well, how about we consult the Wayfarer Rejection System for that?
Low Quality Photo - Use for nominations where the photo is blurry, pitch black, or is taken from a car.
So: a photograph can be in perfect focus and clearly depict a valid POI, but if it's obvious that the photograph was taken from inside a car (i.e., you can see the dashboard, door frame, rear-view mirror, etc. in the photo), that constitutes a low-quality photograph per Niantic.
Yes, but because he is in there, the admins like to pretend that they have 100% Niantic approval and are an official Wayfarer source, and have said as much.
Yes, I could tell that. It doesn't change the face that I've seen posts where their leadership was boasting that about his being a member and using that to infer a certain level of validity. At any rate the quality of advice and misinformation being shared there has gotten so extreme, that we hope to draw Niantic's attention to it, so they can step in and make some sort of statement about it, or at least ask the group to remove any official branding. I'd also like to invite @NianticCasey to join the alternative group so that he may share his announcements with the many people who have been banned from the first group!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/NianticWayFarer/
except photo orientation is a reason for rejection SMH
Just because FAQ wasn't updated to include current abilities players have of editing photos doesn't mean I'm incorrect and a edit can't occur.
We are in agreement that title and descriptions can be accepted and edited afterwards.
Orientation doesn't prevent you from confirming its valid. Just because you have choices for 1 stars as long term agents and submitters you should know you can accept still and edit after. Demanding perfection 100% on new trainers of a few months of access with massive issues going on in wayfarer isn't helping the community. You are hurting it by purposely trying to force the community to give up.
If a Wayspot has to be edited right after it's approval in order to make it accurate and acceptable, then it should not be approved in the first place.
Accurate isn't just a photo of the submission being perfect. If location and description are perfect for a unique statue, photo could be bad because of lighting or slight twist of holding a phone for a camera angle. A sneeze while you are taking a picture shouldn't force it to be rejected if you didn't realize the picture was bad. We are on some small phone screens when we submit. What we see on a phone versus a computer is a big difference. Lower rating on the visual but the rest of the submission should be acceptable, otherwise why does niantic give the power of photo edits?
If you take a bad photo, just re-take the photo. Heck, Ingress even lets you upload a photo so you don't ever have to worry about taking it right then and there.
Photo edits are there for if there are major changes made to the Portal after approval, not to clean up sloppy work.
Pokemon go players can't submit like we do. They can't submit existing photos. So I do see where accidents happen. Plus inexperience is also another reason for some bad photos with new trainers have issues with photos. Time and patience is what should be doing, it's still less than 3 months in. You don't always see blurriness in photos on photos through the games. But when you are online on a computer it clear as day. Most trainers I deal with say they hate it, that submissions are rejected when photo edits can occur. Most pay our gas to submit. Demanding perfection when you can easily figure out what they are submitting for a little blurriness should be allowed to be edited after when niantic has already given some trainers and agents the ability to edit and fix the problem. More people don't abuse the system then the ones that do. But accidents happen. We shouldn't be losing reviewers because 100% perfection is required when FAQ already says edits are allowed afterwards. Use your voting for 1 stars on really bad submissions that you cant ****. Or those tree submissions.