January AMA Prep Thread
TheFarix
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This thread is presuming there will be an AMA in January. Who will be in charge of it is anyone's guess. Maybe @NianticCasey? Nor do we know if Niantic will be accepting questions about Wayfarer or focus exclusively on Ingress. But in the event there is one and Wayfarer questions are allowed, let's go ahead and prepare our questions so if/when the AMA occurs.
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And here is my long list of questions.
Are artistically painted fire hydrants eligible as street art or would they fall under the category of obstructs with emergency services?
There has been an ongoing dispute on low-quality photographs. The guideline simply defines them as photos that are pitch black, blurry, or taken from inside a vehicle. However, some reviewers are rejecting nominations if the images are in low light, taken in poor weather conditions (rain, snow, or fog), have any discernable tilted in them, have excessive shadows, part(s) of the object would be cut off when cropped for the "photo disc", or otherwise doesn't "look good". These reviewers claim that what the guidelines define as low quality photos is not an exclusive list. Is this correct?
I've been seeing a number of batting cages being nominated. Are they (and bullpens) eligible wayspots? If they are part of a baseball field, should they be considered a duplicate?
In the November 2019 AMA, Andrew Krug stated that martial arts dojos, dance studios, and art schools should be categorized as generic businesses. Does this also extend to bowling allies, escape rooms, …?
Andrew Krug affirmed that a Cuban coffee shop is what Niantic had in mind for a hyper-local spot. Does that mean that being a popular spot where locals gather or a place that showcases local flavor and culture trumps any consideration as a generic business? Because at present, many reviewers believe that being a [generic] business should trump any consideration as a hyper-local spot, including the Cuban coffee shop.
Knooppunts are numbered nodes or junctions where two or more bicycle (or walking) paths meet and are quite common in the Netherlands. However, these signs only include the Knooppunt's number and directional signs to the connecting Knooppunts. Do Knooppunt signs meet Naintic's standards for an eligible trail marker? (image source Wikipedia)
In the preceding exchange on the Wayfarer subreddit, one poster told a reviewer to not follow the Waypoint Criteria when it comes to evaluating potential hyper-local spots, such as local gaming stores, and instead follow the "community consensus" and automatically reject all businesses unless the reviewer want their performance rating to drop. What is Niantic's response to this and those promoting this mentality on other forums (Reddit, Facebook, Discord, Telegram)?
Several reviewers are complaining that their performance rating dropped from green to yellow to red. At first, they blamed it on "bad reviewers" coming in from Pokemon Go, however, the latest blog post stated that Niantic has pre-reviewed several nominations and if reviewers disagree with Niantic's assessment on these nominations, the reviewer's ratings will drop. Since the reviewers have no idea where they are disagreeing with Niantic's assessments, will Niantic provide feedback on what categories reviewers are in most disagreeing with Niantic?
Man I am going to miss Andrew Krug's announcement on Telegram that the AMA is live. I hope we get something like that back.
Here's my current list of questions I want to ask:
Cemeteries, Burial Grounds, and Gravestones
Avoid nominations whose real-world locations appear to be cemeteries, burial grounds, or gravestones. Gravestones may be accepted, but only if the gravestone is publicly accessible and it belongs to a historical figure or significant community figure.
Does this mean the ALL Cemeteries are now to be rejected, or just the ones that are not historically significant. If the latter, are there any guidelines or rule of thumb the Wayfarer team can provide to determine if a cemetery is historically significant or not?
Some of my questions got cut off. Here are the last three:
There has been significant debate about whether college and university buildings are eligible. Some individuals believe that all buildings on a university campus have an inherent educational value and therefore are eligible. Others claim that all named halls, regardless of purpose, are eligible because they serve as memorials to honor a notable person within the university's community. Yet others believe that there is nothing inherently special about a university building and that their eligibility is entirely based on their historical or cultural significance, designed by a renowned architect, famous specifically for their architecture, or meeting some other condition in the Waypoint Criteria. Which of this view points is shared by Niantic?
In the Potentially Confusing Nominations section, it states that signs for already existing Wayspots are eligible if they are "a significant distance from the object or location." If a sign is nearby the Wayspot itself, it should be used as a supplementary photo for the existing Wayspot (marked as a duplicate). However, because there is no guidance as to what "significant distance" and "nearby" means and whether signs need to independently meet the Wayspot criteria, it has created a great deal of confusion about which signs are eligible as Wayspots and which are not. Will Niantic provide some clarification on how far a sign needs to be from the existing Wayspot before it is eligible and whether the sign also needs to meet the Wayspot criteria on its own accord?
Recently, we had some reviewers admit on the Wayfarer subreddit that they pick random rejection reasons except "Doesn't Meet Criteria" because they believe that a rejection is a rejection and the specific reason doesn't matter. Or they would use "Generic Business" for anything they think is generic, regardless of whether the nomination is a business or not. This results in nominators getting nonsensical explanations for why their nominations were rejected. Is there anything that Niantic can do to address this?
Are artistically painted fire hydrants eligible as street art or would they fall under the category of obstructs with emergency services?
Are you getting all those Penguin Fire Hydrants from YSU too?
Not from YSU, but from a number of areas cross the US.
Local Agents and players within this community are reporting upgrades being stuck in voting for over months. What can be done to help push those through? Personally, I'm at a point where I no longer want to review because the only nominations I have currently that I want upgraded have upgrades, several with upgrades for over a month. Meanwhile, a new nomination made and upgraded typically takes only days.
Somebody else may be able to better phrase that than me.
I just had my slow upgrade go through in 1-2 months. They usually take less than a week, but this is still way faster than what I get without upgrades.
I've been seeing a number of batting cages being nominated. Are they (and bullpens) eligible wayspots? If they are part of a baseball field, should they be considered a duplicate?
@TheFarix this seems like 2 questions that may get an ambiguous answer. Imo I'd count a batting cage or bullpen that is attached to a baseball field as part of the field. A free-standing batting cage, if separated or somewhere else entirely maybe 3-4*?
In the November 2019 AMA, Andrew Krug stated that martial arts dojos, dance studios, and art schools should be categorized as generic businesses. Does this also extend to bowling allies, escape rooms, …?
You're comparing apples and oranges here. For-profit training centers (that offer no degrees of any sort) vs popular hangouts. If anything, I'd tie in the latter with the overuse of generic business.
Also definitely like the significant distance question for signs. I have a church sign nearby that is a portal, but the church was marked as duplicate when I tried to add it. It's 300 feet from the building. The building itself is only 75 feet long, so it definitely seems far enough to me for a 2nd portal.
I know this is more of a suggestion but Local hotspots and hidden gems have been a long disputed criteria. Another user gave advice about what a submitter should say about the business such as unique cultural experience, awards, a restaurant food that made them famous (think cronuts!), regular events or community programs, famous/celebrity guests or owners, or historical presence in the city. Can Niantic please consider giving some kind of parameter for these guidelines so they have a chance of succeeding with reviewers?
Can you define "duplicates" when it comes to reviewing? It was my understanding that a duplicate is someone submitting the same object that exists in the same place but many think that similar items should be marked as duplicates as well. For example, two Gazebos in a park that are not right next to eachother. Does Niantic consider them different objects and should be reviewed on their own merits or should reviewers mark it as a duplicate since they look the same?
My questions would be:
How do you wanna make Wayfarer work more attractive? I mean, giving at least semi attractive ingame reward per 100 agreements or binding the allowed amounts of nominations to the amount of agreements you got would do a lot.
Will we ever be able to send proof with a report that a POI is fake or invalid? Google maps is often not helpful at all. Basically be able to send links and multiple pics would help you a lot.
Any ideas to avoid POI-stealing on Wayfarer? Like (temporary?) add watermarks or do sumchecks of the pictures.
POI stealing as in: Stealing pics on Wayfarer or from the Intel Map as use them as your own. Ingress people iirc can simply choose them from their mobile folder while in PoGo people take photos from their PC screens. (I have no idea why these go thorugh en masse, they are recognizeable as screen photos even as thumbnails...). It's a mayor issue.
Also, duplicates. Agents do not get email notifications for nominations flagged as duplicates. Can we please get emails?
You’re going to have to elaborate on what POI stealing is
Edited my duplicate question to clarify that the same object exists in the same place to not confuse with people who place the same object elsewhere.
What is POI stealing?
If @RyuuVanDraco doesn't elaborate, I assume they mean people doing Wayfarer reviews and seeing a local area nomination, then going out and nominating it themselves. I've seen nominations of the same POI that I made active while voting myself.
They elabrated, they said:
POI stealing as in: Stealing pics on Wayfarer or from the Intel Map as use them as your own. Ingress people iirc can simply choose them from their mobile folder while in PoGo people take photos from their PC screens. (I have no idea why these go thorugh en masse, they are recognizeable as screen photos even as thumbnails...). It's a mayor issue.
So using existing Wayspot photos for new Submissions?
Yeah people taking pictures of screens and/or reusing the same wayspot pics in different areas is definitely abuse and something they know about from removal reports. If they mean someone sees their nomination, thinks it's bad and probably going to be denied and wants to try and submit it themselves.. that's less of a major issue. Doesn't matter who submits a valid wayspot.
Has the watermark on a photo generated from a cellphone ever been addressed in an AMA?
I automatically reject any submitted photo if it has a cellphone model watermark or a time and date stamp. Those watermarks can be turned off in settings.
Yes, in January 2019
Q35: There are various kinds of watermarks.
Camera makes, timestamps, photographer names, 3rd party imposed water marks, etc. Does OPS makes any kind of distinction between these or are they all treated the same?
A35: They are treated the same and don’t meet the criteria for a good quality photo.
As Kliff said.
Here a nice PoGo Fake example: https://intel.ingress.com/intel?ll=50.793593,7.197386&z=17&pll=50.793593,7.197386 You clearly see it's from a screen. FunFact: Has been reported and Niantic said it's legit. I can't report it here because I'm not anywhere near it right now to gather proof.
Another question:
What about the issue of additional pictures PoGo players have to take which turn out to be completely unuseable for reviewers?
Often the reported POI isn't on it, it hardly shows any environment or it's simply the same photo again. Would be reporting it as LQ photo be ok since there is no possibility to verify the location, the safeness or if it's on private ground in case Google also is absolutely useless because it's below trees etc.?
Time and time again niantic has said each object is fine as long as it distance separated and not the same object such as piecing out exercise equipment or playgrounds within 20m. This is agents making their own rules saying they are going to duplicate more than one baseball field, etc. It has been clarified it is people refusing to follow the rules. Niantic isn't changing the stance on this and the question seems to be supportive of restricting poi and no it is not the same just because they look similar has to be the same gps location and proven to be the same waypoint. Identical baseball fields aren't denied just because they look similar but in different parts of a sports complex.
Can you read before you respond to people just once? My question is not intended to restrict anything. I don't believe things are duplicates unless they are the exact same object as I made clear in the sentence that started with "it is my understanding". I am trying to get a clear response for people who do think otherwise just like my previous questions about Pergolas and other pavillions.
Also since you want to blame agents, here's a thread from a PoGo player: https://www.reddit.com/r/NianticWayfarer/comments/eh03ag/locally_redundant_points_of_interest_opinion/
You do realize for the most part it was agents have complained about this for a long time in the AMAs? Yes pogo players say the same things but it was agents in AMAs asking to restrict poi's. I am irritated over people wanting to find blame with how the system handled when in the past it was a fact that people kept asking the same questions to limit valid poi as it would somehow tarnish the poi system. People are fed up with the bashing I was being honest. I am not this vs. them but when I see someone comparing pogo players having access to edits as a very bad term that is for abuse in a telegram ingress chat its time to grow up. All of the complaints I have seen on these forums were done by agents in the past I wish we could move on. I am more concerned that it would restrict the points of interest due to negative comments a select few post. The whole community pool situation is a good example a small minority supported that change when a lot voted in silence to keep approving them that is part of the reason I support ending AMAs. The sample size was too small and one persons comment was taken as the community agreed with the change.
Personally I would like a few changes:
Specify what a Private residence is and give examples of what not to deny based on private residence
include pictures of lake fountains as a deny in the help section as more and more of these are being submitted. 25% of my votes last night were pond/lake fountains
add clearer clarification on memorials once again
show more visual examples on what to reject.
reconcile OPR with wayfarer guide. People are asking if we should approve exercise stations etc. Yes the duplicate issue is there I though the series questions in help would simplify that but adding even if similar visuals check to see if it is the same should be added like kliffington said. I did not realize it was that bad. I personally thought people were speed voting and just saw a similar on nearby and did not take time to check to earn an upgrade. I had a similar looking waypoint denied due to an existing waypoint that had a wrong photo attached to it as the cover photo.
I went through that person's comment history trying to figure out how you knew they were a PoGO player.
I would not recommend others do the same.
Another Wayfarer question:
Well, there's the Recon badge for Ingress, but it might be useful to have something else in addition to that.
Don't need anything else that encourages seeking agreements over reviewing properly.
Yeah... Lots of wrong opinions. Kholman seems to think things are restricted to one userbase or the other. I play both. Both uaerbases can be a mess. Apparently we are all forgetting that PoGo players specifically joined Ingress to submit but now they're just "agents" regardless.
And yeah the AMAs can result in them saying "No those aren't valid" and that's fine too. At least we have an answer. I like being able to ask and expand the clarifications so we get less ambiguity.
I have two questions that I'd like clearer explanations about.
1) Pedestrian access, most PoGers just throw this in an assume it'll make their nominations automatically accepted, but I'd like a clear definition of what is safe for pedestrian access, if I can walk my dog on a road, even though it doesn't have a sidewalk that road should be fine for nominations. I would say any road that has a speed limit below 20mphs or one that doesn't have a double yellow line, one solid yellow one broken yellow or a broken yellow as these are usually country roads where people frequently walk on.
2) Funeral homes/parlors, where people meet for wakes or burial services prior to a church service or one at the cemetery. These are one usually non-secular and businesses so they could fall under generic business. Plus they are just in incredibly poor taste.
No Kiffington it may be true a few people did that. People are sick of the few complaining to niantic that their score dropping blaming pogo players etc everything done in wayfarer affects everyone. People need to accept things are going to happen. Name calling and the yelling at niantic isn't right. People are tired of people placing red lines on the system. Its not peoples job to policy the system beyond niantics standards. Yes no one is perfect but I am tired of the select few agents that are expecting perfection from pogo players. It has been going on for a while. Can't even get new people to join ingress and stay for the words being said about pogo players honestly in my area, I don't think people understand we can't lump all groups into one or the other but I am sure seeing a lot of judgement cast before giving people a chance. It does help having people play both to have an understanding what is happening but it is very hard to reason with both communities I am an admin of an XFAC chat that players of both games and both factions and yes it is frustrating seeing what is going on. If we could get a general forum for wayfarer it would help those that have questions that play pogo have an official channel to niantic for questions. Pokemon Go has no official place to ask questions only the wayfarer guidelines there is no official forums or contact the community manager is no where near involved as Andrew and Joe Philly were. People have been turning to facebook and other chats because there is no official documents than what is on the wayfarer website. A lot of things are going to be based on local basis on how people vote. I have noticed that the quality of approved submissions in my area has gone up sometimes it may take 2 or 3 tries on some valid submissions but I am seeing more and more generic business rejects etc. The quality hasn't dropped but for maybe the initial first few weeks. It has been improving I am seeing less and less begging for stops in the supporting statements on newer submissions. I am seeing an improvement. Locally we have gained a lot of players from pokemon go into the voting pool and I have seen people asking for input and checking their facts it is not perfect but I am seeing improvement. Edits are going to be a sore subject at first but people are going to start denying them the same way they did low quality submissions. I have had proper placements denied due to can't find locations a lot of people are just saying they can't find the proper location if they cannot see it. My local area has a lot of neighborhood and apartment signs along with pond/lake fountains being submitted like the U.K. has been plagued with the post boxes that were not on the national registry of historical significance. Each area is going to have unique challenges.