Lets talk Prime Functionality
So lets chat. Hopefully you (Niantic) and myself, and whatever agent stumbles upon this.
I'm a vocal person when things could be better and I just experienced a situation that should not happen. It never happened in the history of my experience with Scanner v1.0 (Redacted) and can entirely make or break an experience for an Ingress user.
I went on a journey, along with a bunch of other agents located in various parts of the United States. We were working together for something amazing. My journey was in the warmth, but swampy while others were traversing through snow and freezing temperatures.
I stayed quiet on the Intel map traversing to my destination through mud and flooded trails.
These pictures I'm attaching to prove there is a human behind every scanner. This journey wasn't preferred, but with a common goal in mind - I must continue.
I arrive at my destination way too early, so I sit and relax. I check on messages and enjoy a little swim. Time is almost here and it is time for my action. I claim a portal and throw down some mods. I see my target show up and fire the link! "Crossing link detected." :(
Oops. I went too early, but not to worry. The blocking link was cleared a minute later. Now I'm up again with a crowd of people watching. Link Established! However, I don't get the 313 AP gain. I ask others to confirm my link and they don't see it. I quickly try again - same thing :(
The group is asking me to restart my app, then my phone, then to capsule all my keys, then to throw a smaller link, then try a different portal. Great suggestions from a group of anxious people, but I'm not a novice to this game. I know how to throw some links when the pressure is on.
The clear arena won't last long, we are against the clock here and my game is refusing to cooperate. Agents are convinced there is a blocker I'm not seeing, but once a real blocker goes up - my device responds with the familiar "Crossing link" message.
So I can't throw a link. I'm 45 minutes early to checkpoint though, maybe it will fix itself. Long story short - it doesn't. It takes 1 hour and 4 minutes from my initial attempt to throw my intended link, requiring a cat and mouse game of "blocker" killing. Even though the lane was clear for probably 45 minutes of the delay.
When operations are planned down to the minute, you are probably aware that an hour plus diversion from the plan is a game killer. Things did not succeed as planned, and you best believe Niantic that I am very weary to attempt anything again with all the effort required to get blocked by something out of my control.
I thought I was alone in this issue, but others in this same journey reported stories that matched mine.
- "It said Link Established, but I don't see it on my scanner"
- "I see it on Intel, but not on scanner"
- "I didn't get any AP"
- "My account is **cked, but my wife didn't have an issue"
We were doomed from the beginning, but not from healthy competition, but from an application that can't seem to work at the most required moments. Was this a server issue? Is this a Prime issue? Is this a me issue?
I don't even know what to say here. We have accounts that transcend time and space flying between anchors and killing everything in their path. We report and utilize new Trusted Reporter systems, but the accounts stay alive from our point of view of checking profiles. They aren't affected to the eyes of the agents who care, they just continue destruction until one day they show up banned.
On the flip side, an agent can walk a flooded trail path which they've walked many times and even Ingress`d with many times over the course of years, but can get stopped by what I can only assume is some faulty anti-cheat behavior that seems to only get in the away of the legit agent.
I'm willing to help you Niantic get to the bottom of this, but it is absolutely horrendous and a slap in the face of the work of many to have the 2nd iteration of this game get in the way of success. Please please, I only want to fight the opponent - not also my scanner.
If you want to debug things, my account between 315pm EST -> 416pm EST on Dec 1, 2019.
@NianticBrian #Ingress #GooglePlusHashtag
Comments
Only tuned in about 2 hours after it started so can’t say if there was blockers or not, but longer links seem to handle extremely poorly in less than optimal conditions on prime. Pressing the skip button at all on a longer link seems to fail quite frequently.
Yeah I get this too, I've assumed it was the speed lock, eventually I just shut the app.
Thankful for your thoughtful and accurate summary of how frustrating this issue can be. It desperately needs addressed.
Prime seems to be working pretty well in casual capnderp urban play, but these persistent performance issues have murdered the competitive fielding game.
We had similar problem in old scanner. When another agent clears a far blocker, your scanner may not notice for a while that path is now free and refuse to link (I also suspect that it happened more often if virus was uses to clear a blocker). But in old scanner, in 99% of cases it was enough to press "Sync data" button to fix this problem (but alas, I know few cases happened on BAF linking operations when an agent failed to link anyway, no matter he tried, and have to give his keys to another agent which linked successfully).
Now we have no "Sync data" button, so any inconsistency in cached data will cause havoc and frustration.
Also it seems to a be another bug which may be related - errors during linking or deployment are not handled well. If something wrong happens during deployment or linking (portal becomes out of range, or you have not enough XM to complete the action) - client becomes crazy. For example, it will fail to link but will not allow you to link to this portal anymore (although you can link to another direction)
#thatsnotprime
What you are reporting has been happening for atleast 3yrs....
Which makes it even sadder that it is still happening. Don't discount the post just because of your hashtag.
Niantic gave up on us the moment Pokemon took off. And let's face it, Prime was not ready for primetime when released. Since the **** of Reacted, I've struggled with the scanner until giving up my mission many times. I'm a fielder, plain and simple. And if you can't properly field, what's the point, right?
To give you an idea of our importance, I didn't see a single Niantic person in Brooklyn. A primary site in one of the largest cities in the world, and it was completely handled by POC's. Kudos to them for their hard work.
I just don't think we matter to them anymore. We helped prove their concept, built their database, they're done with us. We've served our purpose.
This is from reddit from 3 years ago
Niantic is investing a lot in Ingress. If they didn't care, they would have pulled the plug a long time ago. They spent a lot of money and resources on implementing Prime. Look at all the effort put into the Nemesis background story.
Even at relatively small and medium sized fields, the speed cap inconsistencies are brutal. Basically you have to either carry a second device for intel and all non ingress applications, or be super careful that you are closing the app in transit or keeping it open and in the foreground while moving. Any backgrounding of the app is likely to trigger the speed cap and that might mean several to more than several minutes of lock, if you are in a low signal area, this can be crippling.
I'm not suggesting these are acceptable conditions or workarounds, just confirming your experience if NIA happens to see this. It really sucks to have so many people commit time, money, and energy to a mega field effort to fail on a bug.
I was directly involved in the cat and mouse blocker killing side of this post. I was having same issue during same times posted, if you'd like to look at my scanner. I've been playing virtually the same scanner use style for past 3 years and have never had the issues like this day. The issue was solely associated with links of distance. Any and all "local" (within 100km) was available and stable. I couldn't even make a long link from a newly built portal with correct modding, more than enough distance, guaranteed no previous or current blockers.... "Link established".... But truly it only established frustration. If this is an anti cheat measure, I will continue to trip it and will no longer open the app or Intel.... The time and money I spend (to Niantic and in gas, etc.) will be used elsewhere.... and not with PoGo or WizardsU.
@ArtIsEqual
Thanks for sharing @iBotPeaches. I'm hopeful, Niantic's developer have been working hard to make every update better. I know how frustrating it can be to have a BAF fail at the last minute, we've had this happen more than once with ghost links in Redacted.
@iBotPeaches This is similar to a post I should have taken the time to write myself over the past couple weeks, so thank you for sharing your experience. I had started writing what was a similar bug report a couple times recently but found myself struggling to complete my thoughts, exhausted after every word. I have no confirmation the lane in your case was clear however given the situations of others I have seen and confirmed myself recently, your example seems to mirror my observations around long linking issues.
Like many Ingress players I've played this game since what feels like the beginning of time. I've seen the game evolve and communities grow. Many areas have pushed the game to the extreme, the never ending struggle to stay one step ahead and outwit your opponents. The risk of defeat makes the reward of victory infinitely sweeter. This is what drives us. The idea that team work, meticulous planning, and lightning precise execution really can accomplish anything imaginable.
Large scale fielding is arguably the most unique and challenging activity agents can attempt in Ingress, there is nothing in the world quite like it. We plan endlessly, mitigating risk where possible, understanding how our opposition will react across a massive geographic area and requiring contingency planning A through Z. Bringing together an army of agent coordination that unites us in a way no other game ever could. Fields often get stopped, plans fall through, unexpected blockers, and real world access restrictions cause complications. These issues happen all the time, fielding isn't for the feint of heart. It hardens our resolve, we learn, plan, and execute better next time. We accept these risks when we dare to dream big, however there is an aspect that exhausts and discourages all involved more than anything else.
The invisible opponent. This post doesn't need to highlight the issues spoofing causes there's more than enough of those already. Instead I will highlight a different invisible opponent, Niantic software bugs. While these issues have been around since long before Prime there has been a noticeable increase in them since it's launch. Long linking issues as mentioned in Peaches post will end large scale coordination as we know it. The general assumption is this is some kind of anti-cheat gone wrong. After years of desperation hoping Niantic will be successful in cracking down on cheating, a legitimate player unable to complete the final piece of weeks/months of planning feels like the utmost disrespect. It does not take very many of these attempted fields gone wrong before the players simply will no longer try. Defeated by an opponent they cannot account for, or hope to battle against.
So what can we do? Let's get back to basics. Ingress at its core is a very simple game; there are really only three aspects. Resource gathering (Hacking), resource distribution (Deploying/Destroying), territory control (Linking/Fielding). Right now 1/3rd of these simply isn't working in a state that can be trusted. The scanner client must work without fail. Legitimate players must have faith in the game functioning as it should or all hope is lost. At the first sign of any of these core issues not functioning correctly, be it from a scanner bug or anti-cheat immediately prioritize its resolution and tell the players you took action. Niantic is the only one who can restore the players faith in the game and core functionality issues continuing to return is unfathomably discouraging.
The very unfortunate result of this is that good players will hang up their scanner forever. I don't mean the more casual players. I mean the most passionate and dedicated players. The community leaders that make Ingress a game that people want to be involved in. Players who drive the game across the world, the unquantifiable magic that has made Ingress the unique game that it is. The players who dare to dream big.
Most people agree that Ingress has an on-boarding problem for new players already, if you lose these community leaders, if their passion is deflated, this problem will get much worse. This and other posts like it aren't ultimatum, or a threat, it is a passionate plea for Niantic to save the game they love. We desperately want to believe in the future of Ingress, but man is it hard some days.
@NianticBrian @RedSoloCup
Sounds like my experience one Sunday a few weeks ago to throw a blocker. Sat in car for nearly an hour trying all different options. Have plenty of screen shots and videos of "link established" to show for my 3 hour trip to attempt one link. All other deploys and hacks were fine.
Luckily I paid for my gas on a credit card and was able to claim it back as credit card fraud.
You remember, I'm sure, when we saw this during shards at Isla when an Enl agent couldn't make the link to The Beacon of Hope. Didn't matter what she did, no link. They had to flip the target and we flipped Isla del Sol, then you were able to make the link.
Yes, I remember seeing this issue in the original scanner as well, but when it was still very much a work in progress (Roma, TX to Hawaii in 2014), but hadn't experienced it since then. It did happen (rarely) before, but it appears to be much more common now.
If this does continue, it will **** the larger ops for sure
Ending large scale coordination will happen faster than a deflating a popped balloon. I’ve had a few discussions in the past 12 hrs questioning future plans and whether they get canceled or pushed further to the future so Niantic has a chance to push more updates.
The story is utterly pointless for gameplay. And is a lot cheaper than devs who know what they are doing!
We certainly saw this issue during the last round of competitive global shards -- e.g., failed link in the PNW from Stehekin to our desired router, which forced us to use a ski resort for a temporary hop. This sounds worse, though.
@iBotPeaches thank you for reporting this; we're investigating the issue you're seeing specifically when attempting to cast long links (several hundred km).
For short links, if the app doesn't allow you to cast a short link after an initial unsuccessful attempt, restarting the app might help. However, it won't help in this specific scenario with long links.
"The group is asking me to restart my app, then my phone, then to capsule all my keys,"
"capsule all my keys"
I'm sorry, you mean to tell me you go for a field covering most of the states and you can't even capsule all your irrelevant keys beforehand? Lol ok, keep blaming prime 🤣
Sorry you're salty, but disliking my post won't bring your field back. You didn't have Eastern lanes in check and didn't capsule your keys. Multiple critical mistakes made on your part. Don't blame an app for user error.
I know you sort of brushed off the short link topic to then discuss the long links, but just to confirm, we have to restart the game just to see links for portals we have keys for if the link fails the first attempt(for what could be a variety of reasons) for "short distance" linking?
Doesnt that seem a bit excessive? Are their technical limitations that require full restart vs having it refresh on restarting the link process regardless of the link size?
I thought I was going crazy with links I was needing to make disapearing even though I had keys for them and knew they would clear due to having low desynced xm or other weird problems.
The frustration with a non-functional scanner is real. And when that is tied to all the work that happens beforehand, it is extremely frustrating.
We have seen similar things in our area. There were two agents throwing a 4000 km link across the Pacific. After double checking for blockers they headed out to the portal, threw the link, packed up, headed back.
Link never showed up. Key re-appeared in inventory a short time later. Fortunately, they were able to return and rethrow and it stuck the second time. .
I personally have sat at portals failing to throw a 25 km link until I restarted the app three times (plus capsuling keys).
The focus with Prime seemed to be to make it shiny. But, for me and most people I know, Ingress is not a game I play in my scanner. The scanner is simply a tool.
I play Ingress on my neighbourhood walks where I make nicely layered triangles over my opponents. I play ingress when I paddle to beautiful islands to claim strategic portals. I play ingress when I hike for hours, and sometimes for days, to remote portals to throw fields and clear blockers.
I play Ingress in the real world and the scanner is simply a tool that lets me do that.
I don't care how glowy an ADA is if I can't open the game in a low signal area. I don't want Prime to be pretty. I never wanted it to be pretty. I just want it to work.
When operations are planned down to the minute, you are probably aware that an hour plus diversion from the plan is a game killer. Things did not succeed as planned, and you best believe Niantic that I am very weary to attempt anything again with all the effort required to get blocked by something out of my control.
While my equivalent isn't as time critical it is similarly frustrating.
A travelling Agent threw a YOLO to Hawaii from the Venice Pier. No problem whatsoever, they checked with people in the region first, etc, zero issues.
A week later, someone in the area goes out to clear it. ADA's portal. Nothing happens. A few hours later, I head down there myself, about 10:30 at night. Knowing they had trouble, I killed a few portals, deployed them, made some links, and some fields, in the area first. I then walk the 5 minute walk out to the pier's end, and ADA the portal. Sounds, animations, XM disappears... and then nothing.
Link is still up, XM is refunded, ADA is still in my inventory.
I try again. And then a few more times. I wait 15 minutes. Now (totally my fault) I'm standing out at the end of the pier at in a T-shirt and shorts, and the temperature hits 45F. I didn't figure I'd need to actually do more than one ADA so I didn't grab a jumper or change clothes. After 30 minutes of trying, I decide it's too cold, and walked back to grab my hoodie, and then head back out.
I stayed out there until 1AM attempting to ADA an easily accessible portal to drop a link. And that link remained up for another week until we could get Niantic to do something about it....
Luckily this wasn't an Operation or an urgent requirement this time. But it could have easily been.
No, he's saying that other people in Zello/Telegram/IRC/whatever were telling him to capsule all his keys. iBotPeaches is pretty competent; I assume he had everything capsuled.
You're cute, thinking you have life figured out. Tell me how your ma's meatloaf is tonight.
Doesn't change that Niantic hasn't stated, and our side never saw, that this lane that's being spoken of was open to begin with, ever. Multiple agents local to me threw multiple blockers along the lane the moment the planned field was visible and this really just looks like a case of lanes not being walked from the outside. Y'all can keep blaming Prime though. I won't stop you.
I will go ahead and throw my own data into the mix if you are investigating issues. Yesterday it took an hour and a half of attempts to create a 2500KM+ link on a completely clear lane. I dropped one key in a series that I was failing to throw to my wife, who was able to create it her first try, but when I tried to throw another within the now protected lane, I got Link Established, but no link. I tried restarting, clearing cache, reinstalling, trying a completely different device, all to no avail. Finally after an hour and a half, it worked.
Oddly enough, when I tried linking something far that I knew to be blocked, I did always get the "Link crosses an existing link" message.
If you would like to see my account activity for the time in question: 12/1/19 5:26 PM EST (first attempting to make links) - 6:51 PM EST (Link finally being created). I also have recorded videos from the client side if it helps at all.
“The moment the planned field was visible.” Meaning you didn’t see it until it was too late, and at that point their technical difficulties had already arisen.
He wasn’t throwing along the field lane. I understand why you made that assumption, since he was vague about the details, but he was at a remote portal near Tampa throwing those zigzag links across the Gulf. I’m pretty sure he had a clean throw.
Happens regularly and been happening for years. Quite often I've gone to throw a link and I'm thinking "this will be a nice field" only for the key to be used but no link or field established. I've had to travel miles to link backfrom the other portal