Make Fielding Great Again!

canon07canon07 ✭✭✭
edited May 2023 in General

I think Gigafields and BAF's are a huge part of the game that's wasting away. There hasn't been a gigafield of either color over the US in years - and large fields are a primary reason for community and connections within factions.

Coordinating a huge field brings agents from around a region or even an entire country together to work on an operation. There are usually dozens of agents clearing blockers and throwing for multi-state fields. Look through any of the news channels on Telegram at the photos of agents in SITREPS - Look through the photos of agents in SITREPS on this forum - Lots of smiling happy people enjoying the community aspect of the game. They go out to dinner together after an op, they drive hundreds of miles together. They hike together and they communicate through so many different channels to make these amazing fields happen.

But folks who don't like not being able to link under a field gripe. And Niantic has listened. And big fields are dying.

Big fields are dying because spoofers keep getting away with their shenanigans - because the other huge reason for regional communication went away with the **** of guardians - because key duping is gone - and all of this because players who just want to make tiny triangles in their backyard and level up by themselves have, so far, been the ones catered to the most.

Make fielding great again.

Post edited by NianticVK on
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Comments

  • KonnTowerKonnTower ✭✭✭✭✭

    Big fields and being able to field under them can exist at the same time. We still haven't seen a single major fielding op foiled by under-field linking. Change has been more of a positive for game health than a minus.


    But with the writing style, it's clear what we're dealing with here.

  • KonnTowerKonnTower ✭✭✭✭✭

    From your posts, looks like you miss being able to keep Salt Lake City, Utah covered again. Good thing players there can enjoy their game without a few select people ruining it for everyone.

  • This whole argument is based SOLELY on what someone thinks the point of Ingress really is.... Since the only true scoring mechanism is fielding and scoring MU at Checkpoints -I'd say the linking under fields has significantly screwed the game over. The argument you seem to be making is that being able to make a 1MU triangle is the actual purpose of Ingress. You've justified your whole argument with "it's clear what we're dealing with here" ... meaning Utah Pony Riders. So what is the actual purpose of Ingress to you??? There is clearly several ways to play the game... but still only one scoreboard in the game. If you have never been involved in an active OP to throw 1million MU layered fields - you have no idea how complicated it is, nor the energy, manpower and coordination it takes to do it. Linking under fields ruins all of that. We used to throw fields to clear links under the field so we could then throw a bigger field. Bottom line is clearly NIA has little desire to improve the game if they can't also monetize it. The game is dying on the vine.

  • KonnTowerKonnTower ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know exactly how complicated it is. Done multiple multi-state ops successfully. Oh no, you need to add a couple rails, so hard. Farm a couple extra keys and ask a teammate to loiter for potential cleanup.

  • VenomousToadVenomousToad ✭✭✭✭✭

    The fielding game is different now. And not because of linking under fields or machina. There just simply isn't any interest in large fields anymore. I've done my share of large fields and cleared for dozens upon dozens of others. The numbers of players needed to coordinate are no longer around. I'm just glad to say I played in the height of the fielding game. New players just don't get the same experience now. Will it ever come back? Not sure. We need more players before we even consider trying it again.

  • liyu1liyu1 ✭✭✭

    Maybe one of the other causes is the vr bb use. Now a single player can 'easily' get his onyx illuminator with vr bb (ok need to be lvl 16 and core , or with a core lvl 16 agent as assistance) . In the past, field OPs, the main way to obtain onyx (for multiple agents in 1 OP for example)

  • VenomousToadVenomousToad ✭✭✭✭✭

    The biggest problem in coordinating a large field is lack of players. If there were more people playing then yes big fields would happen. In most places the large fields enticed people to play, other places large fields ran players off from both sides. It's simply a numbers game with fields. Niantic needs to advertise Ingress like they do Pokemon. Maybe then we would see growth in the game rather than decline. And then we can see if the fielding game comes back.

  • Otrera35Otrera35 ✭✭✭✭

    This game isn't less toxic at all. Agents from the same faction like to force other agents to join their community because they will experience repercussions from that decision if the latter agents don't. This situation explains why there is a shrinking player base because veteran players won't leave newbies and rookies alone, nor do those veteran players respect the Agent Protocol. Making fields under huge fields and scraping the key duplication from QCs do even the playing field specifically for newbies or rookies who are just learning or don't have the resources to travel long distances or afford bots to obtain keys.

    If you want to make fielding great, have an anomaly to make extraordinary field arts for a change rather than stick to the usual BAF or giga BAF. Of course, Niantic needs to incorporate the field art anomaly into the storyline of this game. I have not seen a field art made here in the US except this one recently (see below). It's time to field something creative and more exciting through field arts.


  • KonnTowerKonnTower ✭✭✭✭✭

    "If it was such a "toxic playstyle" and the game is SOOOO much healthier now, where did all the players go? Why aren't more people picking up the game and staying with it anymore?"

    COVID, Prime rollout mismanaged, players "aging out" /gatekeeping communities, and the stream of PoGo players coming to Ingress to make portals being shut off. Ingress is now a direct competitor to PoGo, but is being told they must be profitable on their own (can't use pogo money), but the effort/investment to reward ratio is nowhere near close for the cash cow casual gamers. Niantic management is asking the impossible from their Ingress team and set them up to fail.


    "Guardian hunting - love it or hate it - required teamwork. But like I said, love it or hate it, killing guardians was the first nail in the coffin and it drove a lot of people away from the game."

    It's very hard to login to an automated dashboard (Brokers Guild) and enter a players name to pull up their scraped portal list with age. Right.....


    "And from there on, as I've said, most of the changes that have been made to Ingress cater to individual, and urban play. Linking under fields, key dupes going away, all of these changes make it easier for individuals to play the game and in no way shape or form increase the requirement for teamwork."

    They haven't reduced the need for it either. Teamwork still always beats individual effort.


    "Used to be even anomalies could be influenced by teamwork and fielding over an anomaly site. Now, it's all about battle beacons and shards. And yes there is teamwork involved in beacon and shard anomalies but that's the ONLY time a larger community really influences the game anymore - at least here in the US."

    Right, fielding over an anomaly instead of going there and directly competing is really strategic.... I laughed at this one, thanks.


    "There has not been a single change that makes going to a hard-to-reach low-signal portal more significant. For me, that's the funnest part of the game. Going places I've never been before, having to figure out ways to get a signal in the middle of nowhere. And yeah, no key duping means I have to go back again. But it means I'm going back again and again to the same place if I want to keep using a strategic portal."

    Yes, exactly the point. You don't get free actions anymore. One day of investment to cheese owning an area isn't conducive to healthy competitive play. It skewed the map to handful of players on the edges who grabbed a couple hard to get keys and spit them out like candy. The return on investment was infinite. Now they need to keep going back for keys instead of doing nothing. Too bad, game is much more balanced now.


    "I will grant that Quantums made it too easy to dupe keys. And I am all for that aspect of the game being removed. I do however, believe there should be a mechanism that makes it harder to dupe keys but doesn't remove the feature entirely from the game. And kinetics seem to be the perfect answer to that problem."

    Not particularly. Players are already directly editing their KM walked per week in Google's app and we still haven't fully eliminated backpacking. Quantum removal was a huge first step. I still think requirements for COMM activity before you can collect your kinetic rewards should exist. Add a new COMM message that says "Player XYZ has downloaded thier kinetic reward at "ABC Portal"". Communities would have a way to identify backpack accounts and see which ones aren't actually part of the Ingress community.


    "People have been arguing against large fields for a long time. And you're right, it does seem to be a part of the game that's going away. But to say that the game is better off now that you've gotten your way ignores the reality of the shrinking player base. The game may be less toxic but it's also less fun and less community oriented. And a less toxic game with nobody playing it is the road we continue to travel."

    Nobody has argued we should remove large fields. We've argued that players should be able to play the game alongside them instead of control freaks being able to dictate when/where you can or can't play.

    This entire thread you've typed up shows you're upset that that little guys on the edges miss being able to stop others from doing anything. TBH it was a very unbalanced, asymmetric playstyle. If you want to stop people from having their portals/links/control fields in the game, GO TO THEIR LOCATION AND DO IT. You have bursters, you have gear. Meet them out there instead of tossing lazy links miles over them. But don't worry, you can still limit them to 500m links if you'd like, while still maintaining your MU dominance.

  • edited May 2023

    If you make a big field with a TTL of greater than a week, it's intentionally disruptive.

    If you make a big field with a TTL of around a day, it's not.

    The problem was/is not that big fields stop people playing. The problem is that people are building big fields off portals so durable that they prevent people playing.

    The problem is the design.

    Aside from that, the bigger issue is that the teams have fragmented. Spoofers were always a problem and people chose to make big fields anyway. When people realized they could make 200 layers off a local portal and the field would stay up for 6 months because the keys were off portals that no-one could access but had been duplicating, they chose to stop using large area coverage as a metric, and started using layers as a metric.

    Given that the majority of players these days seem to be far more focused on their profile than actual achievements, when you can get more MU from a 10km field with 200 layers, as a 200km field with 1 layer, why bother with the big field that requires cat herding and actual chance of disruption?

  • because the other huge reason for regional communication went away with the **** of guardians

    Also, to this point, if the only thing keeping your teamwork going was intentionally being an a**-hat and using tools that were no better than spoofing (including people spoofing to do it), I have questions about your idea of teamwork.

  • joecainjoecain ✭✭✭✭✭

    The problem was/is not that big fields stop people playing. The problem is that people are building big fields off portals so durable that they prevent people playing.


  • Oh man, you definitely misunderstand who I am then. I've fought against all these nonsense changes like fielding under fields for years, and even raised all the issues that came to pass when MUFG were released way back when. If I "got all I wanted" we'd have ditched Aegis and returned shields to 10/20/40, reduced Glyphing output by about 66%, and a host of other reversions, that would take us back to what made the game strong. Don't pitch me and @KonnTower in the "Wants the same thing" bucket at all.

    The fact that you think MUFG key duplication is "necessary" despite the fact that it got added when the game's "Big Fielding" aspect was already in decline just highlights the disconnect.

    As for guardian hunting, when it existed, it was the worst of players favourite activity. And Niantic did everything to avoid getting rid of it, by actively damaging other parts of the game, until they finally accepted that it was encouraging spoofing, scraping and cheating.

    It's not that I don't agree that big fields with teams working in concert, were an amazing part of the game. I just disagree with your claim that the teamwork-destroying game feature is what caused teams to come together. It's been 10 years, and for many of us, the exact descriptions of doom and gloom and slide into obscurity that we gave as these features got added, has happened. Reversion of one of the worst (MUFGs) is one of the few steps in the right direction.

    Likely it won't be enough because the teams are already broken beyond repair without some other injection of either development or marketing, and the toxicity of players intentionally preventing others play for the sole purpose of driving them from the game has never been addressed by the company. But when they make a good change, that moves the needle back to the team, yeah, I'm going to defend that.

  • Largely because the people they were trying to recover had already quit by that stage. New players take it as a given and the slide continues because they don't see a point in removing those bigger fields when they can "just play anyway". The teamwork aspect won't come back while there's no benefit or need for it.

  • VenomousToadVenomousToad ✭✭✭✭✭

    Guardian hunting brought out the bullies. Everyone in all the guilds should have been banned for scraping data. The badge should have been removed way earlier than it was. The game is about triangles, not mental warfare.

This discussion has been closed.