Ban appeal for [redacted]
edited July 2022 in Ingress Community Feedback
again about the ENL linkstar yesterday in a closed parc in Antwerp (Middelheim).
Just like there is no reason to ban [redacted] , [redacted], [redacted] there should be no reason for banning Beul80.
Working your way into a closed parc, by telling a small lie to a guard about a lost key, is not spoofing....
If it would be considered trespassing (it is not), it is surly not a reason for a ban. Where is the 1 2 3 step program for that? I reported several players in the past about trespassing, never had any reaction. never applied even step 1
If a vanguard is playing with the impacted team, he is surly biased in his opinion and emotions go high
Please reverse the decisions and lift the ban of these players.
Post edited by NianticThia on
This discussion has been closed.
Agree. Vanguards should never run an operation or even do Intel. Like what happened last night, you years made progress could be lost in seconds..
I fully support agent @Beul80.
This was NO trespassing!
We get more and more prove that NIA is ENL minded. I wonder wether we are playing the right game ☹️.
100% in support of a reverse decision for: GoodGirlxXx , 4NG3LDU5T , Migualiteit, Beul80
How can a vanguard be involved in an op? Its not his job imo.
Again a big blunder from Niantic.
Well, it seems the PARC was entered with consent of the guards. Then it is not trespassing, but being creative. And it is becoming more and more clear that NIA and the vanguards created a mess in the Belgian ingress community. Are they brave enough to cleanup their mess?
Totally agree Thank for your post
Can you even hear yourself talking : "Working your way into a closed parc, by telling a small lie to a guard about a lost key, is not spoofing...."
No it is not spoofing , but it is cheating . He entered a closed off terrain under false pretence. If he was honest to the guard , he would never have been let in.
Edit : i removed the part that it is breaking the law. Because i am no judge.
I have to admit I don't think it's ok to make up stories to get access to a portal, but at the same time this doesn't qualify as trespassing or breaking in. The decision should be reviewed in the light of the facts. I don't think this kind of gameplay should be encouraged and a sanction of some kind might be appropriate, although a ban does seem harsh.
I have edited this having read some of the other comments, as I can understand the reactions from both factions. I do think that - if the agent did gain access under false pretences - he made an error of judgment. It isn't really a model of fair play.
There is no proof of entry, neither on picture, nor witnessed by any guards "from the backdoor" as Beul80 stated in comm, guards don't allow people in the park after closing, they make people leave for 30 minutes in advance and don't allow new people to enter. Been there, done that.
Feel free to deliver the proof if it exists. Many Belgian chats are waiting for it.
There are two options, spoofing or breaking and entering.
Neither are allowed as a way to quickly break an operation that took tens, if not hundreds, of people months to plan.
There was more than valid reason to ban, if Niantic made one mistake it wasn't the ban, it was to keep the portal blue after an illegal action, allowing other players to block a nationwide operation; based on cheating.
When admission is granted, then there is no spoof, no trespass.
And hence no reason for ban.
People should not be triggerhappy as children. First investigate, gather info on suggested or biased facts. Talk to all parties and witnesses before acting as judge, jury and executioner.
Lets just stick to facts and the correct NIA reaction.
You cant be punished for just 'ruining an operation of 100s of people doing an OP' (that is strategically based on linking on a non 24/7 accessible portal).
Doing something against the belgian law is police matter.
Spoofing needs to be proved and even for 'trespassing' to **** an OP the reaction should be equal to every time a player is trespassing. And lets be honest... Even most trespassings with proof (pictures etc) in the last years stayed completly unpunished.
So step 1 : proof that something was done wrong. Not guilty till proven...
Step 2 : even when there is proof. Punish not emotional. Punish like always.. (so not )
Give the involved players there accounts back please.
Step 1: Access to a park which is on the Niantic watchlist for unlawful entry (has been for years) outside of opening hours.
That's all the proof you need.
Portals do not need to be accessible 24/7 to be public, there are however rules against entering places, Middelheim is one such place.
So, lying to a guard to enter to a Parc or break into it to stop an operation is now considered as fairplay by the res community? How surprising? :)
Stopping it when on it irl by open times is OK and enl would consider it as fair, breaking in it or spoofing, is not the way...
If nia allows this, then everyone can/could/would break into a place to counter an operation or capture a portal...
NIA has to deliver the message and keep this case as an exemple.
This is the way!
N.B the ban about the 2 other res agents who didn't enter the park and are banned, I agree its unfair and their cases should be reconsidered... If they really didn't enter a closed park...
"He didn't spoof or trespass he got creative"...
The usual explanation from a faction when one of his member get banned for spoof.
I don't count how many times I've heard the same excuse... including in situations where it don't make sense (area closed at a given time but no guard staying during the night, like cemetery in Charleroi).
Spoof and trespassing are BOTH forbidden explicitly by NIA. And using lies to enter an area where you should not have access IS trespassing, even if a guard let you in.
So, I'd say that ban should be the sentence for both spoof and trespassing. This would make things much easier for everyone as it'd be the same sanction so no need to find fake explanations.
Also, even if there are no barrier, entering an area at times where you should not is still trespassing... closed means closed even without physical barrier.
this story does not check out. He entered thru a backdoor of personnel. Losing his keys to get entrance is deceitful and speaks of character and of the people who support it. You just say: Resistance supports the idea of lying to people to get entrance to closed places. Beul80 has been spotted multiple times linked from fortress Merksem past 11pm according to the site it closes at 11pm.he has shown in the past not honoring opening hours. So I wonder. Is this is wat resistance is? You want to do something. OK break in or lie to innocent security guards and play with their jobs. Shame on resistance on playing with the jobs of people in real life
If it was an enl agent Who did this, then you call it illegal,..
Enl teams standing guard at the entrance asked the guards if they let anybody in, the answer was no. Stop the lies and start playing fair.
BTW screenshot of the portal in Fort Merksem. It's at the back of the fortress
Yes , lets stick to the facts. Please .....
step 1: Proving that something was done wrong
That is easy, He bragged about entering the park by lying to personnel . (screenshots)
Step 2 : is indeed not for us to decide. I have not spoken out pro or contra a ban against the player . It's up to niantic to asses the severety of his lie.
I've read this post with increasing amazement, in which words like 'creativity' are shamelessly used as a synonym/excuse for plain cheating and lying.
The TOS and guidelines are clear: respect and fair play are key. Fair play = honest play, in all its forms.
Further more: we are adults, take responsibility for your action and suffer the consequences. This kind of storytelling ca. 24 hours after the incident and without any concrete evidence from the competent authorities (like the parc guardians), only jeopardises the credibility of a team even more. Like.. seriously?
Which is a pity for the other players involved, like Angeldust and Goodgirlxxx who now have to bear the consequences too..
Shameless, and also kind of sad, when having ro resort to such manipulations of what is simply meant to be: respectful, fair and honest game play.
Did he make a picture of himself in the park? No? That's not smart and he has no proof that he entered the park
I'm not approving , but Beul80 knowing he is brazen enough to really have entered the park.
There was no vanguard directly involved in the operation. Not orga nor operating, nor on the ground.
There were agents at the gate within 2 mins of the flip, no one came out. Security was asked if anyone was let in and the answer was NO. The pic he provided was from an open area over 200 meters away. And if he had made his way into the park even for a lost key, why did he only flip the portal farthest from the gate and not the second portal that had just as many links and he had to pass by. Issues moving with spoofing software?
While I disagree with the ban of the other 3 that coordinated with him and supported trespassing, I agree 100% with the ban on Beul80.
Ik schrijf het maar gewoon in het Nederlands omdat ik aanneem dat het Vlamingen zijn.
Alweer een zielig verhaal om een ban ongedaan te laten maken. Dit lijkt wel op een van die achterlijke post dat ook in de oude Google+ werden gedaan. Allemaal irritante verhalen waarmee de hele Ingress community lastig werden gevallen. Deze keer wordt er een grens geschoven; het is toegestaan om te liegen (tegen een bewaker). Als je zelf niet weet wat liegen is, moet je niet anderen me lastig vallen. Ga fortnite spelen ofzo.
He got in by telling a lie. So would you agree it is a "Unlawful entry" then ?
What is an Unlawful Entry?
An entering onto someone's property without that person's consent, by force or fraudulent pretense.
When a person enters another’s property unlawfully, we often think about it as someone sneaking around or the owner not knowing the entry is actually happening. However, this is not always the case.
Unlawful entry can also be achieved by using force against another, or by fraud. Fraudulent entry involves deception, or dishonesty, to gain admission. For example, suppose that Kristin gains entry into Steve’s home when she lies and says she is with the cable company. Once inside, Kristen takes whatever valuables she can without Steve knowing. Therefore, Kristen committed theft by way of unlawful entry.
So Beul took a portal down by way of unlawful entry ?
Come on Ramii .
As experienced player you know upfront that your actions will be monitered during these kind of operations. Questions will come and have to be answered. You better prepare for a good defense when you execute such action. Did the player record the conversation with the guards? Did the player create a picture together with the portal at fliptime? Yes? Then share it and I will support unban. No? Then I cannot trust the person. He apperantly lied to the guards? So why wont he lie to the community?
I don’t think much to the rest of the fluff , but Xelanc ‘s post sums it up . He knew everyone would need a picture as proof but has failed to produce it , seems stupid to me
Why come on? He either trespassed or spoofed and then he violated tos. Or he lied to get in and then violated community guide lines. He went wrong either way with the clear result of a ban. If I was Res I would look internally and ask. Why does this player think this is the way to go? Who taught this player how to play?
I am of the same opinion when entering a park or private property knowing that at the time of doing so the eyes of the entire other faction and of the same are on that place, I would have made sure to take photos or an audio or any other evidence that supports my story and immediately before communicating it to my faction since many of these came out to play and were legally on the field of play, it seems a shame that players who perhaps had nothing to do with this unpleasant problem were affected and I hope as many others that only take actions against players lie without having proof, because I believe that these players should be taught a lesson since each one could say what they want but without having the evidence and others at the right time and expecting others to defend is a pity since this involves more and more others who have nothing to do with their actions.
I only hope that the players who were affected without having anything to do with it and also received a Ban that Nia studies the situation well and can enjoy the game again without any problem.