Support Ingress urgently requires attention.

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Comments

  • LuoboTiXLuoboTiX ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24

    False assumptions. OP is not looking for a shiny new solution magically making everyone happy. OP is looking for solutions that make COMM normalized, or if this is not possible, make most of the players free from malicious COMM report attacks.

    If you don't actually have idea about what I mean by that attack, here is another example https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/comment/133679/#Comment_133679

    And "making everyone happy" is a slippery sl0pe. Those who are weaponizing the COMM reports against normal players, won't be happy if we found a solution to stop them and achieve justice.

    Feel free to make further replies to me if you do have constructive comments.

  • LuoboTiXLuoboTiX ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24

    By falsely saying "referencing posts that have been removed by Niantic forum modurators", you didn't even click the link I provided directing to a specific comment with proof and statement. It's a proper example of COMM DDOS report attack that supports the theory and description of problems of this post and it was never removed.

    I start to doubt whether you really tried to know what problems @GoblinGranate was talking about and how serious it was. I'd appreciate if you could review what's said by others before contradicting replies from others, rather than refuting for refuting and disagreeing for disagreeing purely from feelings. Thank you in advance.

  • GoblinGranateGoblinGranate ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you @LuoboTiX for your outstanding support, I see you are very aware of this issue aswell since you perfectly understood my point of view and shared the feeling about the feedback. I salute you.

    I'll still be willing to extend the talk about this problem, at least until someone from Niantic provides ANY info/feedback. But it definetely looked like a "not my problem" attitude was being held, which is perfectly valid, of course, but not very constructive.

    Let's not forget, topic is the insane amount of tickets received by support. Reducing the ticket income could and should help Ingress support team to provide a better quality service and looking for an easy way to cut ticket income led me to bring the XF COMM matter.

    Yes, XF COMM is not a fire pit in every region, actually there would be no need to remove it entirely as non affected regions would not be stacking tickets for this reason, therefore I find very appropiate to disable it through some metric that relates tickets to regions, both short and long term. @Atunatunak added some good examples about how "looking elsewhere" or even "not paying attention to XF chat" solves nothing. Sure, I can get rid of COMMs, but abusers won't and if I did it I would be passively supporting the abuse by deciding to ignore it!

  • What ever happened to the “block” button for comms on certain Agents that you want to have no contact with? Did they take that away? Oh wait no they didn’t, it’s still there. If you’re having issues with certain Agents in your local communities, just block them on comms. Why even send them a message in comms when you know for a fact that anything you say to them will probably be reported as harassment. Block them and move on that’s what it’s there for.

    As for the amount of tickets being generated, that’s for Niantic to work on and move from there. It’s why they have the automated system in place. If you’re still having issues and you have a ticket number, you do know that you use that number and give it to your Vanguard to fast track the issue where you’ll have someone actually look at it. The system in place for Ingress is actually in my opinion good. Could it be worked on a little bit and become great, yeah it could.

    As far as I know Ingress is the only game from Niantic that utilizes the Vanguards to fast track tickets. Don’t know about the others as I’ve only submitted one ticket on pogo and it went nowhere.

  • GoblinGranateGoblinGranate ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, just in case you failed to read this bit, I'll paste it here for you.

    "Niantic has stated many times that the are people reviewing the tickets, but that is not entirely true since NO HUMAN BEING would find any ToS violation, for instance, in a COMM message with a copy-paste of the most popular and historic quote of the US Mail Service ("Neither snow nor rain nor heat..."). No human being would either find a reason for a sanction in a COMM message where no agents are tagged, no names are named, a call for peace is being stated and no previous COMM messages in at least 5 months were posted."

    Would you, please, tell me how does the "Block agent" button help me prevent this? Because me and my mates already use it! Could it be some other block button that I completely ignore?

    No need to tell this is Niantic's work, but it is not working, it is not OK and staying silent on this will not solve anything (which, btw, we also tried as this is an ongoing problem from several years ago and some mates actually found a good solution, which was quitting the game and SURE you would like that one, wouldn't you?).

    Cheers.

  • LuoboTiXLuoboTiX ✭✭✭✭

    Dear, please listen, for example there is a guy A in your community. You blocked him/her in the COMM for some reasons and you wouldn't talk to him/her in COMM anymore.

    You keep talking to other players in COMM as usual and not inappropriately. But if guy A organized a massive report attack towards you, you would be warned by NIA OPS almost automatically, even when you actually is not hara.ssing players with inappropriate words.

    More examples:


  • LuoboTiXLuoboTiX ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24

    Considering "different points of view", if you review the entire posts again you would see following situations:

    player not reading valid resourceful links provided but turn to "referencing posts that have been removed by Niantic forum modurators in every single discussion you participate in is starting to get irritating." (???)

    player asking moderators to remove this post for no reasons in front of OP (???)

    player not trying to read the post but just throw "NO" instantly on hearing of "disable the COMM, if no better solutions"

    player not comprehending the problems described here but raised "you can block agents in COMM so no problem" again

    Maybe you are right. Those unconstructive, or some intentional toxic behaviors irritating other players with obvious careless attitudes towards problems and players' efforts to make Ingress better by identifying and seeking solutions for problems, are all parts of the community that we have to embrace. Thanks for your reminder, next time I won't argue with them or try to pursuade them, and I'll simply block and ignore them and concentrate on the topic all the time.

  • The example you gave could be received as spamming if you or others use it constantly.

    The way I see it is that there is a complete lack of respect in your community from both sides. It explains about the toxicity in your area. Nobody willing to sit down and have an actual face to face conversation without throwing insults. If you’re in a XFac chat on TG or anywhere else, you could utilize that to your benefit by throwing the offending Agent out of every group if they can not be mature enough to play the game. Both sides will need to come to an agreement on that.

    There are ways around it, but simply deleting XFac comms altogether isn’t the way. If you don’t want to have cross faction comms on your scanner then why not ask for an option to disable it from your scanner, so you’re not tempted to use it. Also by your omission, you don’t want to use it at all, then why poke the bear and post something in it?

  • LuoboTiXLuoboTiX ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24

    When players receive warnings of "hara.ss other players" for saying welcome in XFAC COMM, you are saying that it's their own fault not avoiding using the COMM and "The system in place for Ingress is actually in my opinion good“, right?

  • LuoboTiXLuoboTiX ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24

    @GoblinGranate has stated very clearly in https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/comment/145483/#Comment_145483

    Yes, XF COMM is not a fire pit in every region, actually there would be no need to remove it entirely as non affected regions would not be stacking tickets for this reason, therefore I find very appropiate to disable it through some metric that relates tickets to regions, both short and long term. @Atunatunak added some good examples about how "looking elsewhere" or even "not paying attention to XF chat" solves nothing. Sure, I can get rid of COMMs, but abusers won't and if I did it I would be passively supporting the abuse by deciding to ignore it!

    No need of you making extreme and biased analogy that does not match this idea and trying to make what OP says more ludicrous. Also, it's not impossible for Niantic to apply restrictions to specific region or area. Taking Wayfarer system as an example, there is black zones in some areas in London for new portal submissions and players there know it.

  • I’m saying that the community in that location is toxic. It’s best to avoid it if it’s that bad. But to remove the XFac comms altogether is not the answer to solve that issue.

    Yes, the system that’s in place is good in my opinion. I’m not sayin it’s the best, but it’s good. If you have a problem with my opinion, oh well that’s not my problem. 😂

  • LuoboTiXLuoboTiX ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24

    Oh well, what I just quoted: "receiving warnings for saying hello" is not the community in the location you and OP mentioned and not in my area as well, which means it's very likely a universal problem and your comment does not have a solid foundation or probably you were not reading any of those links.

    If you call for more examples I would be happy to throw more piles. But looks like you don't really need, because anyway that's not your problem.

  • I read some of the links you posted and it seems to me that the location that you’re in is toxic if you’ve received any reports for harassment just for saying hello.

    Also if you receive the warning then appeal it to have a human review the issue. If the system was perfect and had a human review every ticket submitted by the Agent saying that you’re harassing others and it turns out not to be true then the submitter should be flagged for abuse and have appropriate actions taken against their account.

    Unfortunately there’s no company in the world that would be able to hire and keep that many employed on a game that’s based to be played for free. That’s why there is the robot system in place and why I believe it’s good in my opinion.

  • Everything you posted here is an example of a toxic community. It only takes one to mess it all up.

    Also please don’t address me as Dear. Tag my name if addressing me since I don’t know you personally.

  • LuoboTiXLuoboTiX ✭✭✭✭

    https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/comment/133679/#Comment_133679

    This case can prove that "Also if you receive the warning then appeal it to have a human review the issue. If the system was perfect and had a human review every ticket submitted by the Agent saying that you’re harassing others and it turns out not to be true then the submitter should be flagged for abuse and have appropriate actions taken against their account." does not work.

    Customer support generally still send canned responses to you in such case where Niantic support sends automatic warnings to players unreasonably. To make things correct you have to ask somebody to contact NIA OPS manually to sort it out which can't be done via general appeal process. That's probably also why @GoblinGranate and other players take this problem seriously and ask for a solution.

  • LuoboTiXLuoboTiX ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24

    What months ago? What's your issue with us? All examples and discussions I and OP presented in this post have nothing to do with you, and this is the first time that agents here are discussing this COMM report attack problems seriously.

    Noted for your suspicious collective forum trolling behavior and calling players toxic on the forum.

  • LuoboTiXLuoboTiX ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24

    Please kindly read https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/comment/145503/#Comment_145503 again. According to this case, it is not relevant to whether players block specific agents or not. Players could undergo COMM report attack and receive warnings of never-existed "COMM hara.ssment" behavior even if not talking to the players you supposed to have blocked, and talking properly.

    Please refrain from referring to uselss Ingress rules about "blocking" without comprehending the problems described by @GoblinGranate here, because this has been stated repeatedly in this post.

  • LuoboTiXLuoboTiX ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24

    Moreoever, I have made it very clear when quoting the example, now I'd do it for you again. Everyone can see that it's not my case and it's not me being reported for saying hello and it's irrelevant to my location. There are more examples on the forum, which means it looks like an universal problem. Could you simply truly make a reading before replying and saying that you have read? Much appreciated.

    https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/10151/harassment-trough-harassment-report-tool

  • You truly think that I didn’t read any of that? You have yet to provide any solutions to solve any of the issues you’ve pointed out other than whining about in game harassment. I’ve provided a solution and I bet you even disagreed with it. NO, cross faction comms should NOT be disabled in game at all. Maybe you should reread the message that @Perringaiden provided you. That’s the way it is and if you can’t comprehend the way the official rules are set then maybe you should be bringing those up for debate and not disabling comms altogether! Also your post to @Perringaiden was just rude and disrespectful. Maybe it’s you that’s toxic and the community as a whole was letting you know with those reports. Attitude towards others can go a long way in game.

  • GoblinGranateGoblinGranate ✭✭✭✭✭

    If a dozen jerks could trigger the required amount of tickets to activate, I'm pretty sure Niantic would find a better way without anyone complaining here. Unless, ofc, you have extra knowledge about those jerks (bkackhats?).

    Ok, you just choose to missread my entire speech. Cheers.

    Exposed examples do not meet this criteria. This reference is again missleading from topic.

    I agree to this, fights outside this post weren't brought up on topic.

    Once again I have to thank @LuoboTiX for making clear answers and fully understanding the issue.

    Suggested solution has revealed that nonaffected players don't like it as it makes it their problem too, but are fine if nothing is done as it is not their problem... for now. Remember that I was once in your position. Gotta remind it since some people are clearly missreading my posts (if not reading them at all).

    I'm still expecting some interaction from any Niantic representative. Also, it would be lovely to meet some other possible solution, but given the attitude... I'm not expecting that anymore.

    Turns out that being able to use COMMs without expecting a ban was indeed to much to ask!

  • LuoboTiXLuoboTiX ✭✭✭✭

    I will make it clear again for you and in case of other players, even when you look like do not would like to listen.

    COMM harassment warnings take effect and are sent seemingly automatically NOT only when you do bad words on COMM or talking to a specific agent who do not like you and then report you. EVERYONE in your area, including those sub-accounts, can effectively report you and make a massive report attack towards you. While you don't know who to block.

    And even if you blocked corresponding players who involved in ab.using of COMM hara.ssment report they still can report you effectively no matter what you say in COMM and make you receive the warning email.

    Do you understand that? PLEASE do not refer to "Block" again in the future, Thank you!

  • You do realize that the warnings are nothing. Now if all those accounts were to block you, your account could get banned if you receive enough of them. The harassment warnings again are nothing. Most you’ll get is a ban from comms. That’s still better than getting your account banned altogether. Which would you rather have? Because if and when they block you and there is enough of them, your account will be gone!

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