Pokémon Go Submissions in OPR
I read about the idea, making a test for nominating new portals. I think it s an interesting idea.
But there are a few more problems. Almost every third portal submission has the following sentence in the comment field "please accept my nomination, i need a pokestop there".
Now to the real problem:
NIA created an interesting instument with the upagrades, that also had an positive impact on the opr community. Now, when pokemon go trainers are able to submit new nominations in Germany, the local OPR community is on it s limits again. I ve never seen so many wrong submissions (e. g. On private ground, companies, etc.) and so many sumbissions of portals, that are in ingress, but werent pokestops.
In my opinion the pokemon go community needs to see, what is already a portal in ingress, before submitting new pokestops. It s the only way to avoid duplicates of existing portals.
Cant really see that duplicates will be the main problem, yeah I can imagine there will be a quite a few initially, bur seeing as they take just seconds to mark as a Dupe in OPR, not really going to be much hassle.
The quality of submissions may well be an issue however to be fair the amount of dross that was initially in the OPR queue from the backlog caused by the seer medal was amazing.
Think its just going to be a learning curve, pogo players are going to try and submit anything and everything until they learn otherwise, just like Ingress players did initially.
You would also need to add HOWU to the list also as that should also get nominations in the future.
I’m quite looking forwards to the easy agreements with all the dupes were gonna see on OPR . Silver linings and all that 😂
The biggest issue is that Pokemon Go players want to play the game at home. Every one of them wants a pokemon gym a home. So many of the players who want a POI at home proclaim "I'm gonna make a gym at my house". Do they know how? No. They just want it. By any means necessary.
A submission test won't help if they have that agenda. They should lose their ability to sub if they prove they refuse to take the ability seriously.
Honestly though, there should be a far greater requirement than just being Level 40 to submit. With everyone and their tertiary accounts being Level 40, there needs to be more.
This is why I think nominations should be removed from Ingress and PoGo entirely and be a separate NRWP field nomination app where you can see all existing and pending POIs. That would cut down on a lot of duplicates.
Pokemon Go players should also be made aware of the time when portal submissions were removed from Ingress. If Niantic feels submissions are being abused, then they could remove it from Pokemon Go just as easily as they did with Ingress.
I think one of the best ways to approach it is in a few different ways. Similar to how they released Upgrades what they should do is a few different things.
1) It seems like the countries like Germany which are already portal dense are seeing a lot of duplicates like @mothate said however India which I review as a bonus location doesn't have this issue because there clearly seems to be a lack of submitters. The best solution for the duplicates aspect is to probably show an intel mini map similar to how reviewers can see and mark duplicate candidates.
2) I agree with @Qwizical , it seems like in the dense portal countries it seems like whatever they can even remotely think that can be submitted should be submitted. This I actually blame old legacy portals which never get approved modern day. When someone sees that pokestop/gym is a tire wheel, a lot of pogo player thinks its viable as a candidate now. I see that in my local area still where pokemon go players haven't gotten submission access but it seems like some old ingress players think that this art at a generic restaurant chain which is located everywhere with the same piece of art can be approved still. The ideal solution in my opinion is two process system, I think taking a test should be a requirement but make it monthly for submitters to take a test again and again. Now the other process would be to limit submissions based on the number of portals you have been given for example, start everyone off with 7 submissions no matter what. If you get more than 18 approved per 28 batch then you should get the 14 submission capability. If you get more than 18 rejections among those 28 batch then you get locked from submitting for a month. That way it forces players from both games to really understand a candidate. The second method might seem a bit complicated for Niantic to pull off though.
To be honest the PoGo players are not the only ones to blame. Niantic has not exactly been shoving the criteria down new submitters throats either as they should've. Perhaps because they don't care as much as they are no longer the ones reviewing the submissions as their POI catalogue grows regardless.
It's not like you'd let somebody without a driver's license drive a car, so make them do a test similar to the one qualifying you for OPR. If you want to be able to change the meta you should god damn well be aware of at least the basics. I can only hope something like this is implemented before it becomes available for PoGo players in my country.
I've personally tried to prepare PoGo players in my community by sharing information about how the OPR system works, the pokestop criteria and explaining why some of their suggestions wouldn't get approved. Most are keen to learn, and hopefully if we continue to communicate with each other then things like duplicates or couchie attempts will be largely avoided. Some will try to abuse the system, and possibly blame reviewers for deliberately rejecting their garden gnome out of spite, but i hope they'll be the minority.
I agree there needs to be more criteria than just being level 40 to nominate. You can buy L40 accts from eBay for pennies, perhaps Professor Willow could introduce some special research that needs to be completed before a PoGo player can submit. It could be a way of teaching about criteria too and mean that players still need to earn the right to nominate. Or maybe implement a badge system like Ingress.
I do like that idea of using special research to teach players good candidates, I’m curious to see how many duplicates countries which currently have PoGo subs get.
Having done a lot of OPR recently I see two points where the PoGo players would require a better information in the app.
Absolutely agree with the above. What we get told the supporting photo and statement is for on opr is different to what it says on Prime and I assume PoGo. I don't want to see a photo of the floor to see that players can gather there, I like to see the wider context of the POI especially if not on Streetview
@MandragorDE I'll hold my hands up and say ive not seen any Pogo subs yet (not available in the UK right now) however I have seen numerous Prime subs which have carried out both the points you raised ; pictures of either the same thing again, or pointing away from the POI, statements saying, no other portals near by.
The issues you've raised are common to bad submissions in both games not just Pogo.
But likely pogo players using comments like that
Hmmm maybe, however pogo players have a tendency to be more blatant about it, at least in their edit submissions they are.
Guess we can only eait6to see what it'll bring to the uk.
One hand, lots of potential submitters in more areas than we ingress players currently cover, other hand, more submitters in areas already saturated with poi's.
Be interesting to see how it unfolds.
The biggest problem is, that very few actually read the rules.
They get a the new Option "Create a Pokestop" without any real explanation beforehand.
You click it, snap 2 pictures, and that's it. They lead you through the process pretty well (Take a good picture, put an explanation why this should be a pokestop), but never tell you to even check on the rules what means to be a good candidate.
People will start reading the rules when they may receive a wave of denial.... but even then they could end up just resubmitting everything because they believe they are submitting good stuff... which they don't because they don't know and bother to read the rules.
Most of them don't even realize it is not niantic rating the portals, but other players (of a different game).
My suggestion would be to great a similar mini game to the opr approval system, which you have to pass, before being able to submit new Pokestops/Portals.
In my area , their prime concern is to place a portal in a certain distance from the exsisting protals so that it will become a "Gym" . Many of them have played their Ingress Agent to level 12, so now they can approve those misplaced submissions.
Tbh the chance of enough of them reviewing to influence the portal getting put in the wrong place isn’t a lot. As long as we all make sure we double check location when we review then they won’t be able to get location in the wrong place
There is a link for nomination guidelines before you even click the “new pokestop” button. I can’t post pictures or links yet, so imgur.com/a/YOtn3uY
@Poksinkori while this is true, very few players actually read the sub point. They simply click on create a pokestop, don't even bother to look a little below. Some do, yes. But i feel, the majority of people submitting right now, never did that.
It would be very nice to at least force you to read through them at least once. It doesn't even have to be test, but i think something similar the tos, where you have to scroll to the end wait a few seconds and then submit a checkbox which says, yes i have read the guidelines and i will follow them. That could be another (more simple) solution for the problem.
I agree on that. But I also have the feeling that the Pokemon GO players - or at least a certain amount of them - do not care about quality. I have the feeling that most of them wether try to get a Pokestop at their house or they simply do not have anything portal worthy in their village and try to submit everything and beg in the submission to accept it.
I have no real solution to the problem. You could separate the portal database (bad idea) or select portals/pokestops on different parameters for each game (available_in: ingress|pokemon, also bad) or just add random, non-real-existing pokestops so the players are satisfied.
For me the current situation is aweful and I already hate opening OPR and see all the gargabe submissions :-(
On the other side, these are most likely easy agreement points and boosts for your own submissions. So there is something positive about it.
But I agree, i like to get good portals more then bad ones. It can be very frustrating, if you have to decline the 10th submissions in a row.
With pogo players getting access to submissions it actually seems similar to how OPR first started up @SirKingIke @Angrish . Do you guys remember all the selfies and really bad things in review? Older agents were literally sending the worst submissions possible and would even call Niantic slurred nicknames for literally approving anything because the quality in comparison were just that bad.
We are at a time where we as reviewers have gotten use to seeing good candidates because most people from the ingress community have stopped submitting junk to spam Niantic essentially. Now that Pokemon Go players have access to submitting it's still a lot better candidates than what were in the OPR system at the start. Eventually the pogo players will mellow out with the submissions just like the ingress players of old and depending on what Niantic adds fo their submission features I am pretty hopeful of seeing a lot of good candidates in the future. For now I will take the easy 1 stars for the upgrades though since that benefit didn't exist in the past.
The problem is, if that shitty portal/pokestops get approved, it will never be removed. Removing a invalid portal is harder than creating it. Niantic review never find enough evidence.
Portal report should pass through OPR first, than if accepted go to Niantic for final review with the data and testimony from OPR.
Report system should also ask for a picture to send with.
@Qwizical This a false statement. 99% of players want to play at the park and socialize it is the 1% that abuse the system just like in Ingress. Considering I have crowd sourced submissions from my local pogo community and ask them what they think would be a good submission I have gotten a lot of portals approved based on the feedback I get when asking around. I tell people no houses and they just drop it and they usually try to come up with a valid object close to their house in the surround part of town.
Do people actually talk to the local Pogo communities or just assume they want their house? I live a portal dense city and the biggest complaints they have is not enough stops or gyms in parks and they don't want to play at churches or cemeteries.
Several agents in my city brought online 100+ portals since January haven't had many complaints from Pogo Players or couches come into OPR but I do get: baseball fields, park signs, playgrounds, basketball courts, pavilions, etc that are valid. I get maybe 1% couch submissions. The biggest ones I get are Little Free Libraries.
Also if you get a support asking for a pokestop just ignore the support statement and vote it based on actual guidelines put the biases down. I have gotten a few in prime from ingress saying how great the XM will be sigh.
This last weekend when I was in Chicago. My local review range flipped to Chicago and surrounding states. I got flat out pathetic edits of small town post offices and fire stations that look like either someone wanted to **** up fields or wanted to play around with the system. I can't report the abuse on the edits sigh. I also got a lot of valid submissions as well. It will vary based on the region but abuse goes both ways. I don't think a pogo player is going to move a portal to their house from the public areas actually a lot are afraid of them getting yanked and most are becoming more respectful of property owners in fear of not getting a replacement stop or gym.
@kholman1 there is a lot more people complaining than defending. Maybe your point of view don't match reality.
This is a picture from an approved portal, and there is at least more 6 in the same style and more attempts in recon. Maybe not in your city, maybe not in sense areas with lots of parks, but in small cities with not so much valid candidates, people tends to try this alot.
Where I live I see daily attempts to move arround correct placed portals, obviously just to make another gym/pokestops. And there is even a joke amnog local recon about a certain player who spent all of his nominations at his home, with different pictures and names, and always cry that it never get approved because bad reviewers...
To be honest if that is a legit commissioned mural it is valid if it doesn't mention pokemon go. I live in the Dallas Fort Worth metro and people are just trying to get valid objects approved I see abuse but the amount of pogo or ingress related titles or descriptions making it to OPR is very small and we figure out who was doing it and told them to stop politely. Artcuno would be valid if was commisioned by a city or business if graffiti no it is not like that Gyarados shiny. I know of a local pokemon mural on the side of a building but it does not mention pokemon go at all and it is one block from a hulk mural.
I also wonder if the abuse is regional related such as various countries or cities like you said with few valid portal candidates left. But overall in my 20000+ votes I have such a small amount of portals that fit the mentioning of the games that it is very isolated and could be pinned down if niantic allowed to report the submissions.
@kholman1Man, it's Photoshop!
@Hydraulinski I did get that Zapdos one recently that was photo shopped. I reported it. Yes I see the abuse but I also figured out quickly who in my area was doing the false edits after I started getting portals tagged with pogo trainer names. I started watching and have evidence if they keep doing it. Just because I am level 40 Pogo doesn't mean I am going to let them run amok. I will lay the hammer down on the rule books and let niantic deal with the abuse. I am level 13 in ingress and I hold everyone by the book niantic gave us to vote on. I am not biased I even have portals that are not in Pogo. I just submit valid object and give best judgement. There is a reason why I reached onyx in 5 months and I am already half way to double onyx OPR. I also get angry when the false edits and submissions make it through the system when I get a valid submission denied because the reviewers were to harsh on grading the photo of the portal submission when they could clearly tell what it was and I went back and took a better photo and both would have been nice enought to into the game. I got into a debate over how people were treating baseball field submission and another with a covered basketball court.
The biggest problem is that there is nothing happening with the people submitting those abusive stuff. They do not get some sort of timeout or punishment at all.
If it didn't work the first time, they usually try to optimize their fake and at some point enough reviewers fall for it and it gets approved. And if that is not bad enough already, reporting an invalid portal takes months to be processed - and then usually ends up getting denied. Then you again have take the loop through this forum to get actually removed.
That what really annoys me.