@NianticCasey : Another problem is updating where we are currently located. I used to live in CA, but am not in NJ. There is an option to permanently change my primary location one time, but I do plan to move again, so this isn't a great option for me. I've selected my current area as a secondary location (which can be changed once per year), but don't get many reviews here, about 90% are still in CA.
It would also be great if the system rewarded reviews by allowing for new submissions instead of upgrades. If the players aren't reviewing at all, then they don't get any new submissions.
And lastly, it would be great to know how many of our reviews are still "in review." I can review 100 submissions and my upgrade crawls up 2%. OF course there's usually a huge jump the next day, but it would be nice to know how much further it might increase once they have all been decided.
Oh, last last - seeing what things are not being agreed upon would make us better reviewers. Some type of report showing which reviews we decided poorly on.
I can't believe all the people saying allowing more nominations during a viral scare is unwise, given nominating portals is one of the very few things you can do in Ingress from home. What is the logic there?
I just wish the limit was greater than 25km, given I have over 500 candidates in my database between 25km and 35 km from my home, and far fewer within 25 km.
Been thinking a little bit more about this concern about the quality of reviews from temporary bonus locations. What if the Wayfarer team allowed us to get a batch of 20 nominations that have been awaiting review for a long time? The batch would be restricted to nominations in languages we have indicated that we are fluent in. We review the batch and if our agreement percentage is high enough (we stay in great status), they let us request another batch. In order to have access to a bonus batch, you have to have reached the end of the queue for your regular reviews (current play area/home location/bonus location).
We're going to leave the double nominations in place for those areas that are unaffected.
@NianticCasey No you have not. You have failed miserably on this. You should be ashamed of putting the urge of getting more Wayspots in for your games. Portugal, where I am right now, have declared a state of emergency with outdoor activities reduced to stricly and absolutely necessary. Other countries have done the same and OTHERS will follow.
You are inviting people to go outside where EVERYONE is asking to people to stay in. You are a disgrace.
Its not up to Niantic to enforce the shelter in place guidelines/mandates if you need/should follow them then do so, if not then make your own judgement. You don't miss out on anything by not nominating, there's no streak to keep or no reward for nominating.
Niantic cancelled Pokemon Go events, Ingress and HP:WU events precisely to avoid gatherings and people going out. Wayfarer missed an opportunity to do the same by motivating players to review and reward them. It's just that. Me and others have posted reasonable actions, from our point of view, that could be taken by Wayfarer. @NianticCasey said they wouldn't double nominantions in affected areas.
It is not up to Niantic to enforce shelter but have done it by reworking PoGo and HP:WU so players and play it from their homes. Wayfarer went on the opposite way.
On top of this, giving more nominations will just clutter the queues even more. It won't solve a thing.
you said it yourself...."to avoid gatherings". Wayfarer requires absolutely 0 gatherings. I also think you misread the "wouldn't double nominations in affected areas", I read it as they aren't going to take it away in a week, but leave it longer.
Having nominations available or not shouldn't change anything, Niantic already said they will have them available again when things return to normal. If you can't go out then don't. It's the same thing as having the game playable in unsafe neighborhoods, players need to play at their own risk. Here the only guidance so far is no large gatherings of more than 20 people, the same guidance Niantic falls under, so their decisions are understandable.
i will be totally by myself when i add those wayspots on friday. if someone walks by, i might say hello. if people come too close, i will take a step back.
there is nothing i will touch while making those submissions.
for myself, this is fine.
if you are somewhere else in the world, you might consider your safety different.
I'm happy to let you know that, to make up for any nominations that were "lost" due to the double nomination bug, we've temporarily doubled the upper limit for nominations from 14->28 on Ingress. This will last until March 30.
There will be a repeat of this increase at another point in the future, still TBD. Thanks!
@NianticCasey Hi Casey, just a quick question related to the end of this event -
I'm currently somewhere that it is safe to be outdoors (or at least not illegal). You've said that the end of the event is March 30th - will the extra slots disappear on that day, or will they be in effect until they are used (and just not regenerate 13 days later)?
If they do disappear, what time would they disappear on March 30th?
I'm sure Casey would be far more willing to engage if you could keep the personal attacks down.
The decision was likely made well before this pandemic reached these levels, and we all had the chance to go out and take photos well ahead of time and make arrangements as more places are affected. This was an attempt, poorly timed and arguably with bad execution, to make good on nominations many people lost prior and without much notice. Communication about bonus nominations was limited, and I would hardly say anyone is being encouraged to go out. Practice social responsibility and make the decision if you think it is safe and necessary to go out; if not, we have been promised a future chance to make more nominations.
I am sorry you and your nation are so greatly affected; I fear it will soon catch up, here. Stay safe and don't let the business decisions of this company add to the stress I'm sure you're already under.
Then, I pointed the fact that they have failed miserably to respond at the current GLOBAL situation and to what health authorities are recommending.
Me and others have expressed the same feeling. We were ignored by him and Niantic which is puzzling. I don't feel I'm special. I'm just a player like millions out there. I'm not afraid of expressing my views and they are NOT always right, on the contrary. In this specific case, I feel that it's an incredible act of poor judgement from them.
----------
Let's look at the issues with Wayfarer first, even before dealing entering the COVID-19 discussions:
There are not enough reviewers to deal with the queue
Upgrades are slow to process due to shortage of reviewers
Un-upgraded submissions are taking months/weeks to be reviewed
In general, I think we all agree with this, right?
Now, what would be the best way to deal with these issues?
Attract more reviewers (there are different ways to achieve this)
Reward existing reviewers and get them to review even more (some will have more time on their hands now)
These sound fairly logic ways of dealing with the mentioned issues, right?
Now, how to make things worse for everyone?
Double the nominations for everyone
Double the nominations for everyone/worldwide and invite players to go outside and submit new candidates (as we know, PoGo players have to be in situ to submit their ones)
Do this while there's a global pandemic outbreak
Do nothing about getting more reviewers
Do nothing about rewarding and motivating existing reviewers
So, if this become a success we'll have more submissions to review and the queue is going clog up even more.
And yes, you are right. If you have photos in your backlog you can submit those now from your home or from a safe location. Bear in mind that if everyone does the same, the queue will be cluttered. We'll be having more people complaining on how their submissions are taking ages to show up.
------
Niantic, Wayfarer and COVID-19
In regards to the timeline of events and the fact that I said Casey and Niantic failed miserably... It's not a personal attack. It's a fact. There's an outstanding incompetence that frequently shows up in these forums. Actually, we're discussing a measure that came up because nominations were showing up as double and taking one from your list. Another proof of incompetence? The mandatory category setting that showed up in Wayfarer with ZERO communication to reviewers with Casey admitting it knew NOTHING about it: https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/comment/72731/#Comment_72731 (point 3)
Let's focus on the COVID-19 and the timeline of events that Niantic took. Let me just say that what they did with PoGo, Ingress and HP:WU was GREAT. Kudos to the ones coming up with ways to play home and safe. Well done!
March 9th: Pokemon Go St Louis Safari Zone postponed
The TL;DL is "Niantic, as usual, continues to prove they do not know how to manage a social augmented reality game and makes poor company choices during an international crisis."
For what it's worth, @s3w2, I agree with 99% of your post(s) and have been reading and typically making similar statements alongside of you. I, too, am baffled by the excuses @NianticCasey gave us about bonus location changes. The thought that we would "impact the quality of reviews or encourage reviewers to choose a place they're not familiar with" completely contradicts the spirit of Wayfarer and what we do on a daily basis. Those statements made me laugh and add to the general "we know more about how Wayfarer works than the Niantic Wayfarer team, Support, and spokespeople" sentiment that more often than not is proven true.
You are inviting people to go outside where EVERYONE is asking to people to stay in. You are a disgrace.
This is where you lose me. Making it personal and calling Casey a disgrace is an unnecessary attack. Your post would have sold me at "Niantic's handling of this is a disgrace."
I personally consider 3 inexcusable mistakes Niantic Wayfarer team has made (and continue to allow) that not only have hurt individuals but the overall community:
1) Lack of a quality guide at launch of PoGO reviews; only kind of sort of maybe somewhere saying PoGO players should go out of their way to find lasagna recipes and find flip flop stances from Ingress AMAs;
2) Upgrade issues from 2019 remaining unresolved, ignored; similar, the overall disparity in review time by region; lack of ever formally encouraging reviews;
3) Overlooking an opportunity for incentivizing reviews during a time many of us are housebound; failure to have any at all communication to encourage reviews.
Thank you for your well written reply to my post, @s3w2. I enjoyed the read and hope it reaches the entire intended audience.
Comments
@NianticCasey : Another problem is updating where we are currently located. I used to live in CA, but am not in NJ. There is an option to permanently change my primary location one time, but I do plan to move again, so this isn't a great option for me. I've selected my current area as a secondary location (which can be changed once per year), but don't get many reviews here, about 90% are still in CA.
It would also be great if the system rewarded reviews by allowing for new submissions instead of upgrades. If the players aren't reviewing at all, then they don't get any new submissions.
And lastly, it would be great to know how many of our reviews are still "in review." I can review 100 submissions and my upgrade crawls up 2%. OF course there's usually a huge jump the next day, but it would be nice to know how much further it might increase once they have all been decided.
Oh, last last - seeing what things are not being agreed upon would make us better reviewers. Some type of report showing which reviews we decided poorly on.
I can't believe all the people saying allowing more nominations during a viral scare is unwise, given nominating portals is one of the very few things you can do in Ingress from home. What is the logic there?
I just wish the limit was greater than 25km, given I have over 500 candidates in my database between 25km and 35 km from my home, and far fewer within 25 km.
Today's the day! What time though?
Been thinking a little bit more about this concern about the quality of reviews from temporary bonus locations. What if the Wayfarer team allowed us to get a batch of 20 nominations that have been awaiting review for a long time? The batch would be restricted to nominations in languages we have indicated that we are fluent in. We review the batch and if our agreement percentage is high enough (we stay in great status), they let us request another batch. In order to have access to a bonus batch, you have to have reached the end of the queue for your regular reviews (current play area/home location/bonus location).
We're going to leave the double nominations in place for those areas that are unaffected.
@NianticCasey No you have not. You have failed miserably on this. You should be ashamed of putting the urge of getting more Wayspots in for your games. Portugal, where I am right now, have declared a state of emergency with outdoor activities reduced to stricly and absolutely necessary. Other countries have done the same and OTHERS will follow.
You are inviting people to go outside where EVERYONE is asking to people to stay in. You are a disgrace.
calm down, s3w2.
Its not up to Niantic to enforce the shelter in place guidelines/mandates if you need/should follow them then do so, if not then make your own judgement. You don't miss out on anything by not nominating, there's no streak to keep or no reward for nominating.
Niantic cancelled Pokemon Go events, Ingress and HP:WU events precisely to avoid gatherings and people going out. Wayfarer missed an opportunity to do the same by motivating players to review and reward them. It's just that. Me and others have posted reasonable actions, from our point of view, that could be taken by Wayfarer. @NianticCasey said they wouldn't double nominantions in affected areas.
It is not up to Niantic to enforce shelter but have done it by reworking PoGo and HP:WU so players and play it from their homes. Wayfarer went on the opposite way.
On top of this, giving more nominations will just clutter the queues even more. It won't solve a thing.
you said it yourself...."to avoid gatherings". Wayfarer requires absolutely 0 gatherings. I also think you misread the "wouldn't double nominations in affected areas", I read it as they aren't going to take it away in a week, but leave it longer.
Countries are going into lockdown and people are getting fines for doing so, due to that encouraging people to go out isn’t responsible.
i also read what Niantic said the same way s3w2 did but I can see now how it can be read the other way.
Having nominations available or not shouldn't change anything, Niantic already said they will have them available again when things return to normal. If you can't go out then don't. It's the same thing as having the game playable in unsafe neighborhoods, players need to play at their own risk. Here the only guidance so far is no large gatherings of more than 20 people, the same guidance Niantic falls under, so their decisions are understandable.
i will be totally by myself when i add those wayspots on friday. if someone walks by, i might say hello. if people come too close, i will take a step back.
there is nothing i will touch while making those submissions.
for myself, this is fine.
if you are somewhere else in the world, you might consider your safety different.
Hi folks,
I'm happy to let you know that, to make up for any nominations that were "lost" due to the double nomination bug, we've temporarily doubled the upper limit for nominations from 14->28 on Ingress. This will last until March 30.
There will be a repeat of this increase at another point in the future, still TBD. Thanks!
@NianticCasey Will there be any reviewing bonuses of any kind please ?
We are crying out for some big news on reviewing some big update that will declog the system on top of these double nominations.
Postpone this compensation immediately!
This is a completely wrong signal from Niantic in times where we all should stay at home.
Stay home! Stay healthy!
tell that to my boss, RodRedline. i am still at work.
even if we do get a total lockdown i will be able to go out for a walk and make a submission.
@NianticCasey Hi Casey, just a quick question related to the end of this event -
I'm currently somewhere that it is safe to be outdoors (or at least not illegal). You've said that the end of the event is March 30th - will the extra slots disappear on that day, or will they be in effect until they are used (and just not regenerate 13 days later)?
If they do disappear, what time would they disappear on March 30th?
I'm sure Casey would be far more willing to engage if you could keep the personal attacks down.
The decision was likely made well before this pandemic reached these levels, and we all had the chance to go out and take photos well ahead of time and make arrangements as more places are affected. This was an attempt, poorly timed and arguably with bad execution, to make good on nominations many people lost prior and without much notice. Communication about bonus nominations was limited, and I would hardly say anyone is being encouraged to go out. Practice social responsibility and make the decision if you think it is safe and necessary to go out; if not, we have been promised a future chance to make more nominations.
I am sorry you and your nation are so greatly affected; I fear it will soon catch up, here. Stay safe and don't let the business decisions of this company add to the stress I'm sure you're already under.
HUGE POST, sorry. No TL;DR.
First of all, thanks for your kind words of support. I sincerely hope you don't go through the same in your country/area.
I'm sure Casey would be far more willing to engage if you could keep the personal attacks down.
I have tried that approach days in advance: https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/comment/73033/#Comment_73033
As you can see, Casey posted the announcement on 13th and I replied on the 14th. Constructive and supportive dialog.
Casey replied on the 17th with this: https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/comment/73259/#Comment_73259
And I replied back on the same day https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/comment/73298/#Comment_73298 Again, constructive dialog.
Then, I pointed the fact that they have failed miserably to respond at the current GLOBAL situation and to what health authorities are recommending.
Me and others have expressed the same feeling. We were ignored by him and Niantic which is puzzling. I don't feel I'm special. I'm just a player like millions out there. I'm not afraid of expressing my views and they are NOT always right, on the contrary. In this specific case, I feel that it's an incredible act of poor judgement from them.
----------
Let's look at the issues with Wayfarer first, even before dealing entering the COVID-19 discussions:
In general, I think we all agree with this, right?
Now, what would be the best way to deal with these issues?
These sound fairly logic ways of dealing with the mentioned issues, right?
Now, how to make things worse for everyone?
So, if this become a success we'll have more submissions to review and the queue is going clog up even more.
And yes, you are right. If you have photos in your backlog you can submit those now from your home or from a safe location. Bear in mind that if everyone does the same, the queue will be cluttered. We'll be having more people complaining on how their submissions are taking ages to show up.
------
Niantic, Wayfarer and COVID-19
In regards to the timeline of events and the fact that I said Casey and Niantic failed miserably... It's not a personal attack. It's a fact. There's an outstanding incompetence that frequently shows up in these forums. Actually, we're discussing a measure that came up because nominations were showing up as double and taking one from your list. Another proof of incompetence? The mandatory category setting that showed up in Wayfarer with ZERO communication to reviewers with Casey admitting it knew NOTHING about it: https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/comment/72731/#Comment_72731 (point 3)
Let's focus on the COVID-19 and the timeline of events that Niantic took. Let me just say that what they did with PoGo, Ingress and HP:WU was GREAT. Kudos to the ones coming up with ways to play home and safe. Well done!
March 9th: Pokemon Go St Louis Safari Zone postponed
March 12th: HP:WU CD Cancelled https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/hpwizardsunite/?p=web&s=events&f=event-postponement-cancelation-faq
March 12th: Pokemon Go CD Cancelled https://pokemongolive.com/post/updatedevents-abracommunityday
March 13th: Pokemon Go gameplay changes: https://twitter.com/NianticHelp/status/1238605979970764801
March 13th: Niantic/Wayfarer announces they'll make up for the bug that took nominations out and award everyone the double of nominations
March 14th: HP:WU gameplay changes https://www.harrypotterwizardsunite.com/post/gameplay_updates_mar2020/
March 16th: Ingress events cancelled/postponed: https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/10024/updates-to-upcoming-ingress-events/p1?new=1
March 18th: More Pokemon Go Safari Zones cancelled https://nianticlabs.com/blog/liveevents-safarizone-postpone
March 19th: Niantic/Wayfarer announces double nominations WORLDWIDE for Pokemon Go and Ingress Players
Spot the misaligned.
Oh, here's a fun story about how to behave in these days https://comicbook.com/gaming/2020/03/19/italian-man-coronavirus-lockdown-pokemon-go/
Well done, Wayfarer.
The TL;DL is "Niantic, as usual, continues to prove they do not know how to manage a social augmented reality game and makes poor company choices during an international crisis."
For what it's worth, @s3w2, I agree with 99% of your post(s) and have been reading and typically making similar statements alongside of you. I, too, am baffled by the excuses @NianticCasey gave us about bonus location changes. The thought that we would "impact the quality of reviews or encourage reviewers to choose a place they're not familiar with" completely contradicts the spirit of Wayfarer and what we do on a daily basis. Those statements made me laugh and add to the general "we know more about how Wayfarer works than the Niantic Wayfarer team, Support, and spokespeople" sentiment that more often than not is proven true.
You are inviting people to go outside where EVERYONE is asking to people to stay in. You are a disgrace.
This is where you lose me. Making it personal and calling Casey a disgrace is an unnecessary attack. Your post would have sold me at "Niantic's handling of this is a disgrace."
I personally consider 3 inexcusable mistakes Niantic Wayfarer team has made (and continue to allow) that not only have hurt individuals but the overall community:
1) Lack of a quality guide at launch of PoGO reviews; only kind of sort of maybe somewhere saying PoGO players should go out of their way to find lasagna recipes and find flip flop stances from Ingress AMAs;
2) Upgrade issues from 2019 remaining unresolved, ignored; similar, the overall disparity in review time by region; lack of ever formally encouraging reviews;
3) Overlooking an opportunity for incentivizing reviews during a time many of us are housebound; failure to have any at all communication to encourage reviews.
Thank you for your well written reply to my post, @s3w2. I enjoyed the read and hope it reaches the entire intended audience.
I fully agree with you @Gendgi, your post is totally on point.
When I wrote those words, I was trying to refer to Niantic/Wayfarer team, in general. I apologise to @NianticCasey if it sounded as personal.
I don't think 14 extra nominations would be a big deal, compared with the amount of nominations already stuck in the system for months.
14×scores of Agents submitting + 7× legions of PoGO Trainers is what adds up.
It's literally doubling allowable nominations with the same number of reviewers.
When some regions it already takes a year or longer for nominations to be closed, regardless of reviewer numbers.