It would have been reachable from a large lot dedicated for park parking and no where near any street. Its also a massive park where some of the waypoints would have been 1/3 mile or 5-10 min walk from the nearest parking which does massively impact usage/peoples willingness to gather.
Also seems the bug has been fixed, have had both an Ingress sub and pogo sub accepted tonight and both were added as portals to Ingress. However, the waypoints accepted during the bug still aren't showing up as portals in Ingress yet.
I play Pokémon since the beginning and to be honest I didn't saw significant changes to it's basics. From day one to today I can only recall, buddy, raids, friend list, player battle, and researches. And all of this are skipable, the basic it's still catching Pokemon by just spinning the ball. It's been 4 years and they still didn't catch up with the correct generation from that time and didn't include more balls.
I don't count adding more pokemon or more colors of them as changes. It's just good marketing strategy to keep the addiction constant.
Also, wizard unite came up with everything better than ingress and pokemon together. Even thou it's a great game, it's just more of the same and of a lesser franchise comparing with pokemon.
And chess didn't change its basic for centuries too, and still one of the most playable games, even considered an sport. Diminishing something for it's simplicity doesn't make other superior.
There's simple and then there's basic. You can say there's strategy to Ingress, but if the gameplay isn't engaging enough to retain players then the strategy disappears. I field my local villages at one week intervals because I have to wait for them to collapse naturally due to lack of players.
Also added to PoGO since the start: Rocket stops, community day events, raid hours, mystery bonus hours, trading and lucky friends, adventure sync, 7km eggs, gym badges (some people live for them), weather boosted spawns, GO+. Some of those are further additions within what you said, but they're still new things.
Yeah, but all those things don't change much the gameplay. The rocket invasion is one of the best changes, along with researches (what's made my keep a daily routine), and I'm still mad those things didn't came to ingress yet, since they're perfect for ingress. Random portals becaming Red/DarkXM will improve gameplay in areas with low agent and help the map keep it's dynamic of ever changing. And tasks will also help players keeping their daily routine.
I prefer Ingress because we can change the map, dominating an area. This is something Pokemon don't have, and probably never will. Capturing a Gym isn't the same. There's no strategic value or team coop to do that, you just do it for coins and personal gain. The maximum coop it have is the maximum of 6 friends cooperating to get one (but usually is just one or two guys with multiple phone and accounts). The players basically killed competition by cheating and wintradind.
But instill have faith that ingress will eventually catch-up. I believe that doesn't matter how much money Pokemon invest to Niantic they can't use it to work with other projects and even if they could it wouldn't be a smart idea. My only fear is that they added something like pokemon to collect, but almost all other features can be ported to improve ingress, without damaging the triangles making.
Pogo used to have some real gym battles. Back in the first year I had a group, we posted battle plans, coordinated group attacks, and ran out and frantically defended our coin-giving gyms. Then they overhauled the system so that a player who literally has 2 hours of gameplay under their belt can capture nearly any gym, and you hope to lose your gym so you can gain your coins.... The old gym system had problems (mostly shaving and overpowered blissey) but I still wish they'd given it an overhaul rather than throwing it out the window.
All of that is severely off topic for this post.
I slept on this and what I don't get... I've seen so many ingress players complain that they're afraid of "pogoers abusing and gaming the system" but in what way is there potential for harmful abuse by selecting which of several, hopefully valid, wayspots makes a gym?
There is absolutely people abusing wayfarer, submitting and approving trash, moving stuff to inaccurate locations, and even the crazy people making and moving 10+ gyms to one spot. I can't see that any of that really has to do with selecting which wayspot turns into a gym. This is something that should be controlled in some way or another. Until Niantic comes up with a way to evaluate the locations themselves, or get trusted, local, player input to help make the choices, the current method is a reasonable workaround for the system.
People worried about abuse... remember it isn't just "pogoers" doing the abuse, there's a long history of it back to the first ingress submissions. The problem is not "the pogoers gaming the system" it's a minority of players of all types who don't care about the quality of the wayspot network, and the best way to weed out the abusers will be a combination of education, effort from good reviewers, and carefully reporting the people who actually, significantly, abuse the system, not everyone who tries to use the tools available to make improvements to the network for all of the games.
The problem is using one game to change the other. There are non-players using the servers meant to ingress, moving portals that are in the correct place to a wrong just to activate on the other. Would you like if I decided to go over you house to use your kitchen to make my food? And not even cleaning the the dishes?
Also, the reason OP created this discussion is 100% invalid and he should not receive any support, because even thou you don't see it as an abuse, it's not a real feature to be asking support of. Want to complain that it didn't come to ingress, fine. Complaining that messed up with your manipulation plans has absolutely no credit for, just deal with it.
Maybe Niantic staff see these income of pogoers as way to increase Ingress players, but using one to change the others is really a bad way. That's why I defend full randomness for gym creation, for the good sake of both communities. Let every kid play with their own toys, and try new one if they want to, not to get advantage in their old one.
To stay ON topic. Usually when I submit a new portal/wayspot that's the end of the story. Let the gyms fall where they may, more or less.
But occasionally I notice when a new submission will potentially create an opportunity to "spawn" a gym, and I'd much rather take a little thumbs-up effort to try and direct weekly mobs of shiny-Legendary-hunting gamers into a park instead of randomly taking up somebody's business' limited parking. Usually it only takes a single thumb (mine) to keep everybody happy, players and non-players alike.
Stopping those complaints before there's anything to complain about is golden. Ingress players were stealthily playing for yeeeeears without non-players ever noticing. But those days are over, and locally we've lost multiple excellent standing "farm" locations, literally because of such complaints.
The other time I've collaborated with local players to pick a gym? A local mall was one new portal shy of creating a new gym. We proactively picked a spot that all players could reach 24/7, as opposed to a spot that would be locked up overnights or the other spot that was extremely tricky to reach due to gps drift issues.
And if y'all like playing any of these games, I urge you to do the same -- a tiny bit of effort to move that one aspect of Pokemon gameplay (gym raids) into parks instead of at random businesses. If you're submitting a location at or in a park, give it that little thumbs-up immediately. Or if you're submitting one NEAR a park that already has at least one portal, give one of THOSE a thumb.
Crazy how a feature that was intentionally coded to function this way, has no impact on actual gameplay (photo votes don't impact actual gameplay at all), and positively impacts both games (like you mentioned if pogo players gathering causes issues with a business, they will take issue with Ingress players accessing the waypoint as well) is met with crys of abuse and requests for banning.
Part of it is Niantic's penchant for "Calvinball". Almost nothing is ever explained. If you know how to make layered fields, it's because somebody besides Niantic told you. If you know how to long-press when firing a burster, same.
If you know anything about S2 cells, Niantic didn't explain that either. And for good reason as far as they may be concerned, because now they are not beholden to the mechanism. They have every right to change it if they decide it isn't quite working for them.
It cause impact when a ugly picture (or dated) that fail representing well the portal, but somehow it got 30 thumbs on it, taking an almost impossible job to get a better upvoted. The bad one will stuck.
And what you mean by coded to function this way? Thumbs was coded to select the best picture of the location. If there's just one, no thumbs is needed. Pokemon go just scrap this data and use it as this information meant that more pictures and like meant good locations, and usually do, since old gyms are mostly is touristic places, but new ones don't anymore. Niantic never speak public about this and never say it's allowed or not. Imo, was just the easiest way at the time.
Have you actually seen many, if any, wayspots that have 30 votes on a bad photo that were caused by pogo?? The only cases I have heard about with that amount of votes are where ingress players got into petty fights over whose name got to stay on a portal... The most I've ever seen needed was about 10 to beat out some other portal where sloppy agents had uploaded multiple photos since so many were just bad.
I get that playing Ingress makes people paranoid, but please try to consider what you're actually fearing. Nobody disagrees that it would be better if there were an alternate way to control the gym location. However, at least locally, the players trying to make wayspots for pogo have done far more good than harm using the photo voting. I personally have replaced many TERRIBLE wayspot photos with good, up-to-date ones. Even if someone is too lazy to do this, it usually only takes 1 or 2 votes to get the gym placed and that is easy to overcome if someone later actually wants to replace a portal photo. And a lot of people have actually started playing ingress as a result of the wayspot system, so are we still "outsiders" simply because we also care about the other game and community? So... what are you actually worried about?
I'm just in range of a gym with 4 repeated pictures, each one with over 15 upvotes. Right next there a equal example with less pictures. Both are actually left and right part of the same street art of a parking lot entrance. Between the two there is other graffiti. By the cells rules, should be only one pokestop there, but a guy lives there I range, and use all his accounts (the gym is always full with the same ones). This gym should not exists. There was already 3 in the zone, and there is a public park in the zone, with no gym inside. This park is just the best place to play Pokemon, due the high amount not spawn and stops. The guy just managed to move a gym out of the right place and create a gym inside his house, leaving the park with no one again. And the gym he move was already just crossing the street in the next square.
Luckily that park is part of two s14 zones, and the other didn't reached 3 gym yet, so I was able to wander in the neighborhood and submit a few more portals, and the park finally got it's ex gym right away. But because selfish and lazyness it could have a extra one. As I said, there two portal of the same thing, but different parts of the painting, and he submitted them far away of the real location so both got accepted (bad review). We tried to sent new picture and upvote it, but everyday ours got the front the next day the others got upvoted too (he is probably afraid of losing it for being duplicate), so we basically yeald and accepted defeat, since even if this one is deleted, he will keep trying until the other couch became the gym). This guy's plays alone, we already spotted him alone with his two phones, using a enl account and after his res (we know of about 6, but since he got up to 17 thumbs in the pictures, there's probably more and he will create as many as he need).
But that's one case. There's probably more. As well as there's is good users, choosing good spots there's is also many bad users of this method.
And I'm not afraid of anything, I'm just stating na truth. This system wasn't created for this purpose. One game should not receive interference from a other, it happens we play both, but if I didn't I won't be happy at all if I had to install other game app, learn new rules and achieve new level at something I don't want to play, just to play better the one I like. This isn't right and not fair for both.
My point is: this isn't a tool. OP shall not receive support. His problem is already a know issues in working (portal not appearing). This entire topic is off topic in this community (since his complain is about not being able to manipulate the gym location). The support here is held by a different team, and they don't answer about others games (they barely do about ingress). I lost two gyms too, that didn't end up were I wanted (should be a plaza and bus terminal), because I didn't knew well. This happens. Moving on.
Presumably you have reported that falsely moved illegal gym to Niantic for abuse? Because that’s how the accounts involved get flagged for disciplinary action. Whinging in a community forum doesn’t accomplish anything productive.
Comments
It would have been reachable from a large lot dedicated for park parking and no where near any street. Its also a massive park where some of the waypoints would have been 1/3 mile or 5-10 min walk from the nearest parking which does massively impact usage/peoples willingness to gather.
Also seems the bug has been fixed, have had both an Ingress sub and pogo sub accepted tonight and both were added as portals to Ingress. However, the waypoints accepted during the bug still aren't showing up as portals in Ingress yet.
I'm not a Go hater, I'm a Go player as well. I just know to differentiate both and that they shouldn't mix.
Ok, but with ever-increasing ways of going about it. It isn't just: shall I make a big triangle or a small one?
If you're criticizing triangles, I have some bad news for you about how the models used in Pokemon are made.
Way to miss the point.
I play Pokémon since the beginning and to be honest I didn't saw significant changes to it's basics. From day one to today I can only recall, buddy, raids, friend list, player battle, and researches. And all of this are skipable, the basic it's still catching Pokemon by just spinning the ball. It's been 4 years and they still didn't catch up with the correct generation from that time and didn't include more balls.
I don't count adding more pokemon or more colors of them as changes. It's just good marketing strategy to keep the addiction constant.
Also, wizard unite came up with everything better than ingress and pokemon together. Even thou it's a great game, it's just more of the same and of a lesser franchise comparing with pokemon.
And chess didn't change its basic for centuries too, and still one of the most playable games, even considered an sport. Diminishing something for it's simplicity doesn't make other superior.
There's simple and then there's basic. You can say there's strategy to Ingress, but if the gameplay isn't engaging enough to retain players then the strategy disappears. I field my local villages at one week intervals because I have to wait for them to collapse naturally due to lack of players.
Also added to PoGO since the start: Rocket stops, community day events, raid hours, mystery bonus hours, trading and lucky friends, adventure sync, 7km eggs, gym badges (some people live for them), weather boosted spawns, GO+. Some of those are further additions within what you said, but they're still new things.
Yeah, but all those things don't change much the gameplay. The rocket invasion is one of the best changes, along with researches (what's made my keep a daily routine), and I'm still mad those things didn't came to ingress yet, since they're perfect for ingress. Random portals becaming Red/DarkXM will improve gameplay in areas with low agent and help the map keep it's dynamic of ever changing. And tasks will also help players keeping their daily routine.
I prefer Ingress because we can change the map, dominating an area. This is something Pokemon don't have, and probably never will. Capturing a Gym isn't the same. There's no strategic value or team coop to do that, you just do it for coins and personal gain. The maximum coop it have is the maximum of 6 friends cooperating to get one (but usually is just one or two guys with multiple phone and accounts). The players basically killed competition by cheating and wintradind.
But instill have faith that ingress will eventually catch-up. I believe that doesn't matter how much money Pokemon invest to Niantic they can't use it to work with other projects and even if they could it wouldn't be a smart idea. My only fear is that they added something like pokemon to collect, but almost all other features can be ported to improve ingress, without damaging the triangles making.
Pogo used to have some real gym battles. Back in the first year I had a group, we posted battle plans, coordinated group attacks, and ran out and frantically defended our coin-giving gyms. Then they overhauled the system so that a player who literally has 2 hours of gameplay under their belt can capture nearly any gym, and you hope to lose your gym so you can gain your coins.... The old gym system had problems (mostly shaving and overpowered blissey) but I still wish they'd given it an overhaul rather than throwing it out the window.
All of that is severely off topic for this post.
I slept on this and what I don't get... I've seen so many ingress players complain that they're afraid of "pogoers abusing and gaming the system" but in what way is there potential for harmful abuse by selecting which of several, hopefully valid, wayspots makes a gym?
There is absolutely people abusing wayfarer, submitting and approving trash, moving stuff to inaccurate locations, and even the crazy people making and moving 10+ gyms to one spot. I can't see that any of that really has to do with selecting which wayspot turns into a gym. This is something that should be controlled in some way or another. Until Niantic comes up with a way to evaluate the locations themselves, or get trusted, local, player input to help make the choices, the current method is a reasonable workaround for the system.
People worried about abuse... remember it isn't just "pogoers" doing the abuse, there's a long history of it back to the first ingress submissions. The problem is not "the pogoers gaming the system" it's a minority of players of all types who don't care about the quality of the wayspot network, and the best way to weed out the abusers will be a combination of education, effort from good reviewers, and carefully reporting the people who actually, significantly, abuse the system, not everyone who tries to use the tools available to make improvements to the network for all of the games.
The problem is using one game to change the other. There are non-players using the servers meant to ingress, moving portals that are in the correct place to a wrong just to activate on the other. Would you like if I decided to go over you house to use your kitchen to make my food? And not even cleaning the the dishes?
Also, the reason OP created this discussion is 100% invalid and he should not receive any support, because even thou you don't see it as an abuse, it's not a real feature to be asking support of. Want to complain that it didn't come to ingress, fine. Complaining that messed up with your manipulation plans has absolutely no credit for, just deal with it.
Maybe Niantic staff see these income of pogoers as way to increase Ingress players, but using one to change the others is really a bad way. That's why I defend full randomness for gym creation, for the good sake of both communities. Let every kid play with their own toys, and try new one if they want to, not to get advantage in their old one.
To stay ON topic. Usually when I submit a new portal/wayspot that's the end of the story. Let the gyms fall where they may, more or less.
But occasionally I notice when a new submission will potentially create an opportunity to "spawn" a gym, and I'd much rather take a little thumbs-up effort to try and direct weekly mobs of shiny-Legendary-hunting gamers into a park instead of randomly taking up somebody's business' limited parking. Usually it only takes a single thumb (mine) to keep everybody happy, players and non-players alike.
Stopping those complaints before there's anything to complain about is golden. Ingress players were stealthily playing for yeeeeears without non-players ever noticing. But those days are over, and locally we've lost multiple excellent standing "farm" locations, literally because of such complaints.
The other time I've collaborated with local players to pick a gym? A local mall was one new portal shy of creating a new gym. We proactively picked a spot that all players could reach 24/7, as opposed to a spot that would be locked up overnights or the other spot that was extremely tricky to reach due to gps drift issues.
And if y'all like playing any of these games, I urge you to do the same -- a tiny bit of effort to move that one aspect of Pokemon gameplay (gym raids) into parks instead of at random businesses. If you're submitting a location at or in a park, give it that little thumbs-up immediately. Or if you're submitting one NEAR a park that already has at least one portal, give one of THOSE a thumb.
Please come over to my house. I'm new to the area and don't have anyone to hang out with. I'm lonely :c
Crazy how a feature that was intentionally coded to function this way, has no impact on actual gameplay (photo votes don't impact actual gameplay at all), and positively impacts both games (like you mentioned if pogo players gathering causes issues with a business, they will take issue with Ingress players accessing the waypoint as well) is met with crys of abuse and requests for banning.
Part of it is Niantic's penchant for "Calvinball". Almost nothing is ever explained. If you know how to make layered fields, it's because somebody besides Niantic told you. If you know how to long-press when firing a burster, same.
If you know anything about S2 cells, Niantic didn't explain that either. And for good reason as far as they may be concerned, because now they are not beholden to the mechanism. They have every right to change it if they decide it isn't quite working for them.
It cause impact when a ugly picture (or dated) that fail representing well the portal, but somehow it got 30 thumbs on it, taking an almost impossible job to get a better upvoted. The bad one will stuck.
And what you mean by coded to function this way? Thumbs was coded to select the best picture of the location. If there's just one, no thumbs is needed. Pokemon go just scrap this data and use it as this information meant that more pictures and like meant good locations, and usually do, since old gyms are mostly is touristic places, but new ones don't anymore. Niantic never speak public about this and never say it's allowed or not. Imo, was just the easiest way at the time.
Have you actually seen many, if any, wayspots that have 30 votes on a bad photo that were caused by pogo?? The only cases I have heard about with that amount of votes are where ingress players got into petty fights over whose name got to stay on a portal... The most I've ever seen needed was about 10 to beat out some other portal where sloppy agents had uploaded multiple photos since so many were just bad.
I get that playing Ingress makes people paranoid, but please try to consider what you're actually fearing. Nobody disagrees that it would be better if there were an alternate way to control the gym location. However, at least locally, the players trying to make wayspots for pogo have done far more good than harm using the photo voting. I personally have replaced many TERRIBLE wayspot photos with good, up-to-date ones. Even if someone is too lazy to do this, it usually only takes 1 or 2 votes to get the gym placed and that is easy to overcome if someone later actually wants to replace a portal photo. And a lot of people have actually started playing ingress as a result of the wayspot system, so are we still "outsiders" simply because we also care about the other game and community? So... what are you actually worried about?
I'm just in range of a gym with 4 repeated pictures, each one with over 15 upvotes. Right next there a equal example with less pictures. Both are actually left and right part of the same street art of a parking lot entrance. Between the two there is other graffiti. By the cells rules, should be only one pokestop there, but a guy lives there I range, and use all his accounts (the gym is always full with the same ones). This gym should not exists. There was already 3 in the zone, and there is a public park in the zone, with no gym inside. This park is just the best place to play Pokemon, due the high amount not spawn and stops. The guy just managed to move a gym out of the right place and create a gym inside his house, leaving the park with no one again. And the gym he move was already just crossing the street in the next square.
Luckily that park is part of two s14 zones, and the other didn't reached 3 gym yet, so I was able to wander in the neighborhood and submit a few more portals, and the park finally got it's ex gym right away. But because selfish and lazyness it could have a extra one. As I said, there two portal of the same thing, but different parts of the painting, and he submitted them far away of the real location so both got accepted (bad review). We tried to sent new picture and upvote it, but everyday ours got the front the next day the others got upvoted too (he is probably afraid of losing it for being duplicate), so we basically yeald and accepted defeat, since even if this one is deleted, he will keep trying until the other couch became the gym). This guy's plays alone, we already spotted him alone with his two phones, using a enl account and after his res (we know of about 6, but since he got up to 17 thumbs in the pictures, there's probably more and he will create as many as he need).
But that's one case. There's probably more. As well as there's is good users, choosing good spots there's is also many bad users of this method.
And I'm not afraid of anything, I'm just stating na truth. This system wasn't created for this purpose. One game should not receive interference from a other, it happens we play both, but if I didn't I won't be happy at all if I had to install other game app, learn new rules and achieve new level at something I don't want to play, just to play better the one I like. This isn't right and not fair for both.
My point is: this isn't a tool. OP shall not receive support. His problem is already a know issues in working (portal not appearing). This entire topic is off topic in this community (since his complain is about not being able to manipulate the gym location). The support here is held by a different team, and they don't answer about others games (they barely do about ingress). I lost two gyms too, that didn't end up were I wanted (should be a plaza and bus terminal), because I didn't knew well. This happens. Moving on.
Do you know why people post about Pokemon Go in an Ingress forum?
1) Because there is no PoGo forum.
2) Because Niantic uses Ingress to influence PoGo (possibly Wizards, possibly every spin-off game)
Stop being elitist. Without the other games, Ingress would have to close shop.
This is a problem wholly created by Niantic's awful implementation.
Presumably you have reported that falsely moved illegal gym to Niantic for abuse? Because that’s how the accounts involved get flagged for disciplinary action. Whinging in a community forum doesn’t accomplish anything productive.
Nothing happened, as usually.
I telled a case example because someone asked.
It really doesn't matter. They use stored game database, not commentaries on the wrong place.