January 2020 Wayfarer Criteria Update

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Comments

  • Thanks 🙂

    I think I'm overthinking it 🤣

  • Ok found an online travel guide about my town.

    In the picture you can see a McDonald's. Does this now count as it's featured in a travel guide /s

  • TheFarixTheFarix ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is that kind of stupidness that is going to cause some to yell "Michelin or not!" So let's not encourage stupidness.

  • Michelin star interpretation sounds about right. Saw someone on xfac telegram comment that they wouldn't accept even the rarest of UK postboxes unless it could be proven that a historically important letter was posted there...

  • kholman1kholman1 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020

    a few more things:

    Why does a playground and athletic fields have to be 40m from a house yet other park objects do not? This is another issue if there is clear separation and access does not require trespassing to reach this should only be an issue if a home owner complains to niantic. If the playground is across the street from a house the players don't have to access their property to visit waypoint yes the home owner can complain about traffic and then niantic would have to remove them due to the settlement but saying park or HOA common playgrounds are off limits at 40m even if there is a 40m separation that is clear is not in the best interest of the playerbases.

    Also the other exclusion of art and examples listed within 40m of a private residence it should fall under the same restrictions if it can be legally accessed and is not on private residential property and the reviewer can tell separation and that it is not going to cause issues it should only be an issue if a property owner complains.

    These issues crop up in small towns and suburban areas this isn't usually seen in a downtown area or business district like the city of San Francisco. It is very hard to even accomplish anything with these restrictions it is basically saying to disadvantage small towns and neighborhoods because there is a very small chance that someone will complain it isn't 2016 anymore and a lot of players have matured. If the players cause issues the consequences are they lose the waypoints.

    I have gotten over 200 waypoints added in my city and the amount within 40m of private residential property and schools is pretty high. The things I looked at were:

    • Is it in criteria?
    • Can this be safely accessd?
    • Will it cause issues with homeowners or the school?
    • Is it likely to lead to issues with people cramping the area?

    So far the only one I had to remove was due to the place closing down. I haven't seen any of my park objects cause issues and clear separation from the houses and schools helped. They may be within 40m but what has helped is a self policing community. Quite frankly my area had issues with churches and cemeteries having 20-50 people raid gyms playing pokemon go. The parks were never an issue.

  • PsychoX23PsychoX23 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020

    While this is helpful, I think it's still to light. We need something that's more then just a page long. Off the top of my head I'd like to see better clarification on other topics such as:

    Transit - you've explained that it's acceptable as it connects the cities and the world, but what photos are acceptable when using transit? You've said before bus stops are a no go unless there's nothing else in the area. But what happens when someone nominates a bus stop because nothing else is in the area then a month later someone has filled the area with garbage stops/portals?

    Pedestrian Access - while I think this should be obvious, the area being safe for people standing, I'm still seeing a lot of nominations being rejected on the basis of no safe pedestrian access. I've even gotten into arguments with people trying to explain to me that indoor nominations have no safe pedestrian access, despite the fact that their indoors.

    Hidden Jewels - this is rather ambiguous and could use better examples. You've used restaurants before as examples but now you say restaurants need to be featured in travel guides. Can they still be considered hidden gems if they're being promoted? I'd also like to see a better explanation on generic restaurants. If you could use the term "corporate" or "franchise" restaurants not being acceptable, that would help, but just saying generic is to open. Generic as in there's a "Mom and Pop" restaurant on every corner, never mind the name? What about a restaurant that is featured for winning awards?

    Park Signage - "Generic nomination for the park overall as long as the photo includes a signboard of the park." What do you mean by "signboard?" Does it have to be a sign with the parks name, or can a sign indicating that it is park land work? As many people have previously stated, not all parks have signboards, but some, at least around here, have signs indicating that the property is a city park. We have those types of signs already accepted in the game, but many of them at the same time get rejected for being "generic," and yet your rule up there is giving the ok for generic signage.

    Post edited by PsychoX23 on
  • This. The phrasing in the guide is "If a park is too small for a sign board...". We have multi-acre parks without sign boards where I live in Canada. Maybe all US parks of any size have sign boards, but this ruling is inappropriate for the rest of the world. Please adjust it to something that is appropriate for the whole world. (Require a reference on a government website or similar. Require a physical object like a gate at the entrance.)

  • kholman1kholman1 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020

    This is true and another issue is they don't allow people to tie the park down to a bench or something common. A lot of greenspaces have a name but no substantial object such as a playground basketball court etc. Also the discounting playgrounds within 40m of a private residence? I have seen people faking the location or submitting the playground in their backyard. But almost all of these cases the playground can accessed from a safe access point in the park when they actually do meet criteria. I think maybe a solution would to shrink the size of xm and spawn points around a portal/stop and allow more natural XM and spawns for pogo. This way adding a new stop doesn't always put spawns in someones backyard. I think it should only go as far as the ring radius for a lure in pogo.

  • KliffingtonKliffington ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020

    I hate that we keep needing clarification on what they mean by PRP.

    @NianticCasey please, can you please tell us if you still mean Single Family Private Property or were you using shorthand in this guide?

    Should things within 40m of any kind of residence apartment, condo, houses, etc be strictly rejected?


    I'd say this part makes it clear what it means

    • Acceptable: 
    • Playgrounds in parks and apartment complexes

    But people want to be nitpicky because they're unhappy with these clarifications.

  • kholman1kholman1 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020

    @NianticCasey After speaking with members of multiple wayfarer groups I am in there seems to be a lot of frustration with the update on community pools. Is there any reason why we cannot nominate the sign for public pools in the city parks? The local park here has a sign as large as one of the park entrance signs in front of the pool by the parking lot outside of the gated pool area that is the waypoint. I feel that submitting the signs should be a fair compromise due to the fact if the clarification is to weed out having a ton of pools having a sign as a requirement would make it harder to prove validity on a pool and the submission isn't technically just a pic of a pool now next to the pool it is a sign at the entrance and usually has the park name or the name sake of the pool if the city dedicated it to a member of the community or organization.

  • TheFarixTheFarix ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fortunately for our area, all of the public swimming pools have already been submitted and approved. When I submitted a pool, I always placed the location on what appeared to be the main entrance, which is typically the pools bathhouse. However, I think the reason behind the ruling is largely because some people were being stupid. Instead of placing the location at the bathhouse or main entrance, they would place or move the location to the middle of the pool. And now, because some people couldn't help themselves from being stupid, we now lose out on a valuable candidate. It also appears the same has happened with murals, playgrounds, and LFL were people who are stuck on stupid (ex mural on a garage door) in order to get a convenient location near their house have caused this kind of blowback to occur.

  • KliffingtonKliffington ✭✭✭✭✭

    There's no way there's a legal reason for the pool guidelines otherwise it would be blanket ban. If it was a liability thing they wouldn't be saved by cultural relevance.

  • Most rules are written for America and don’t really work for the rest of the world so its safe to adapt them per country imo.

  • GearGliderGearGlider ✭✭✭✭✭
  • McReesingtonMcReesington ✭✭
    edited February 2020

    This is one of the biggest parks in my area. It's very popular for dog walking, taking a few minutes to cross. It's listed on government websites. It's labelled on Google maps. It has a sign which even describes it as government parkland. But because the sign fails to mention one extra word of its name (it's named after the street it runs alongside), it's suddenly flipped for eligible gameplay from 5* to 1*, with no practical difference. Absolutely nothing changes in terms of how this would impact gameplay or any real world concern at all.

    Meanwhile a nearby bit of inaccessible nature reserve was an easy pass because the rotting wooden sign mentions the word park on it.

    These rules aren't sensible. There needs to be a realignment of thinking at Niantic and a reminder that they are a game company, which means a focus on accessibility. Maybe it's time to listen to those of us doing this stuff on the ground and trying to help. The number of hours I've put in around here has made it one of the only areas to not die off and has made them god knows how much money from the daily raiders and regular lures, in spite of Niantic's design decisions. The areas I couldn't reach all died off, because people need to actually be able to play the game where makes sense, and there needs to be a system which reflects that. The whole time I was fighting against broken rules and it didn't need to take years to achieve basic playability.

    It wouldn't even be something big or difficult to put out a notice saying parks and walking areas are accepted if there's anything which indicates they are so, including supplied government urls and even basic unnamed signs. Hell, if you want the game to be really playable and successful, explicitly say that every entrance is valid and desirable. Watch your game actually thrive then when people can just play the damn thing in places which make sense.

    Post edited by McReesington on
  • Oh, I saw that one and gave it an approval! I remember it as it was one of the better business submissions I had come across.

    The current state of ‘generic business’ being whacked onto everything (including things that are clearly not even related to a business) is disheartening. There are businesses which I do believe should qualify but with the current reviewing milieu I don’t feel like wasting my nominations.

  • someone has to do something about this! it is getting out of hand.

  • Totally agree.


    Indoor Wayspots

    Acceptable Mounted or free-standing murals, paintings, fountains, sculptures, etc. in a mall or the lobby of a business that also meet the criteria of being visually unique and locally significant.


    Not acceptable: Mounted or free-standing murals, paintings, fountains, sculptures, etc. on or within 40 meters of private residences.

    Re-reading the guidance the murals within 40m refers to indoor ones.

    So are outdoor ones acceptable?

  • And here I was hoping everything getting marked generic business would get some help passing. Time to start a travel magazine...

  • kholman1kholman1 ✭✭✭✭

    I think I found what Casey was mentioning when referencing travel guides:


    Your local CVB (Convention and Visitors Bureau) website. This guide is helpful. It has a lot of existing waypoints in my area but it does list some foodie places that are cultural relevant locally that are not.

  • GendgiGendgi ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020

    Forgot this thread was here, too.

    The updated "January" and "October" information is now linked into the actual Wayfarer Help section.

    It would have been nice if when there's an update, there's an announcement on the home Wayfarer page (similar to how you see when you're rewarded an upgrade) so people who don't constantly check the help page know there's something new, @NianticCasey.

    Nonetheless, thanks for getting it linked to the page! Even being on an official Niantic page, people still argued the January update "didn't count" since it wasn't tied to the Wayfarer site.

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