Shouldn't nominations of emergency services whose placement in no way hampers with the duties of emergency personnel or their driveways be a valid nomination? Eg. Police station/ fire station sign located near to the sidewalk.
Even if they aren't in the driveway of emergency vehicles they still create additional traffic around the hospital/fire station/police station... which cause problems for various reasons.
I don't understand why some people insist on submitting these. Is it so hard to find some other waypoints around?
In a small town like the one where I grew up, yes. Post office, library, 2 churches. https://intel.ingress.com/intel?ll=43.642827,-76.08662&z=17
Respectfully, please don't use things that are in game as examples of things that are eligible candidates. The guides change. Per the guides, there is nothing instructing us that fire departments (or other emergency service providers) are eligible candidates, and we're in fact instructed to avoid anything that could obstruct with those services.
Little free libraries, murals, or other things that are generally acceptable may be approved of the location is agreed upon to not obstruct those emergency services.
For a lot of rural areas, fire stations and such are the only culturally significant thing for miles. Also, a lot of fire stations are large enough that they are multi-purposed for other things. We have several in my area that have community events, space to rent for meetings or parties (that can include an educational tour), or are used for other city/county functions such as a place for drivers exams.
It seems like an iffy grey area that should be evaluated case by case to me. These places ARE culturally significant (as I consider most government services), but whether or not the portal would interfere with emergency services is really case specific, and comes down to how it's placed.
For instance, the fire station on the left has tons of non-interfering area for the public, whereas the fire station on the right is a more than obvious no-go
Piggybacking a but, aside from sometimes being culturally significant, many fire stations are old.
Frequently, city fire station #1 was built before the town even had a city hall, or a founding charter.
Besides just being old, many such fire stations are historically significant enough to be listed on the national register of historic places.
Many include brass plaques on nearby objects, such as an original fire station bell, a flagpole a bench, or in a public park on fire station property. Often something commemorates notable fires they put out, or memorializes deceased firefighters.
Some have bronze sculptures of high artistic quality. Some have unique architecture. Some are obvious landmarks
Some have displays or dioramas of past firefighting equipment, and some include full museums, complete with docents and educational displays.
To automatically reject a "fire station" is a lazy review; About as lazy as rejecting a mural because the store owner painted it onto a generic business. Yes, reviewers should be on the lookout for reasons to appropriately reject bad nominations, but remember also that the review process should be on the lookout for acceptable nominations to approve, and in areas of few portals, extra leniency may be required.
If the guideline was to reject everything at a fire station in a knee-joik fashion then it would say so. It doesn't say that. You shouldn't make up your own guidelines.
Forgive me, since a fire station alone isn't listed anywhere as an eligible Waypoint, I try not to make up my own guidelines. I also did not say I reject fire stations, just that they aren't listed as eligible. As brought up later, they can be evaluated case by case.
Here's hoping that the Soon™ updated criteria guidelines can address it better.
Yes, @Gersterwind, many fire stations have monuments and historic plaques. Many are even accessible for community gathering locations. Again, I did not say I reject fire stations for simply being a fire station.
A "Fire Station," "Local fire station," "It's a fire station, no nearby PokéStops" does not a 5* nomination make. Instead, encourage somebody to take the time in the nomination to say why it should be an eligible candidate.
If you want to nominate a fire station or other emergency services provider, @bestefan88, use the great advice that what was mentioned by @cmonineedaname and Gersterwind - start by trying to find something distinctive and otherwise eligible within the area. If there isn't anything, go for nominating it. Just be as supportive in your description and substantiation about the value they provide, how they represent a fundamental aspect of the community, and anything else you can think of. Besides placement being away from emergency services, be mindful that some people may also reject if there is limited parking or only one entrance to the facility.
Now we cant send in feeback or report portals dont follow criteria and Niantic never remove.
Please fix we can send in about do not follow criteria @NianticBrian
Completely unrelated comment, stay on topic.
You don’t need to tag Niantic on every single comment.
I'm really happy with the level of discussion I'm starting to get as opposed to the first response of "nope".
I get they aren't listed as eligible but their listing as ineligible is conditional and not just stated outright. So I'm glad that there are reviewers who take the time to evaluate each nom based on its own merits.
There are 3 police stations within a 5 km radius from where I live and each of them can be eligible if given a fair shake from the community. One has a taxi stand right in front of it where commuters wishing to travel to the city use. Another is right opposite a promenade. The doorstep to that station is literally on the roadside and if the submitter were to place the location obliquely opposite on the promenade just a few feet away from the actual object then it would meet all criteria. last one has a bus stop located right outside the compound to the left. Each of these do not discourage pedestrian traffic but rather encourages it and it has never interfered with their operations. I would like to submit them but sadly the review community in my country is small minded. They rejected a courthouse because they argued that there is police presence there. Since when is a court house a facility of emergency services beats me!
I do hope that Niantic can provide clearer guidelines when reviewing such noms. I would rather they would read and spell it out so even the ignorant will understand but that's wishful thinking.
Personally, I would avoid nominating anything near an active firehouse or police station.
However, decomissioned ones are another matter entirely; those I would consider to be potentially valid nominations, providing there were sufficient evidence that they had, in fact, been decommissioned.
Further points in favor of nominating decommissioned firehouses and/or police stations would be if the original buildings were repurposed into a community gathering place of some kind, such as a public meeting hall or - in the case of a former firehouse not too far from where I live - a museum (in this particular instance, the museum in question is dedicated to the history of firefighting in the area, with displays of various artifacts and documents related to the subject, including a couple of well-maintained antique fire engines).
Trust me, Until clearer guidelines are provided by NIantic, imma steer clear of those noms cause although I can do a pretty good job of explaining that it does not meet the conditions for it to be rejected, the community will still vote how they do which is without even looking at the supporting information and just 1 star it. Just wanted to get an idea within the community how many persons actually understood the guidelines for rejecting one of those.
Although it is very straight forward, look at schools and Private property, we are instructed once it appears to be on such a compound to reject it outright whereas for emergency services, it was specific of the location being the driveway only and then for the reviewers opinion of whether the location chosen will interfere with operation. If we were to outright reject all noms like this it would have been stated just like schools and private property,🤔 but it wasn't.
Fire stations, Police Stations and Hospitals are all fine locations for portals, as long as the placement does not impair their ability to do their work. "Creating additional traffic" is nonsense, just like "Adults near a playground is dangerous". Don't make up your own excuses.
That said, emergency services buildings themselves are not valid portals by the criteria. Many were added as part of the seed, but have never been valid subjects. The clarification regarding where a portal blocks operations, is for the many monuments, plaques, and interesting things around those buildings.
You still need a subject worthy of being a portal in those places, but it should not block the operations of those services.
"Portals" on Police Stations?🤣
Strong language ahead (if you dare to translate, but you don't even need to understand what happened).
I still don't understand how people can't use some common sense with submissions. City players submit things at entrances to buildings all of the time and they are never against blocking EMS. I feel like a fire station sign that is not on the building but on a corner of the property should be allowed. Why can't people use some common sense on some submissions? Corner of a property at a sign isn't hurting anyone.
Until the people park at the fire station and block it just to walk over to the sign.
I'm seriously thinking about report a portal, because it's an ex gym, right in one intersection of movimented streets, and when there's is raids there, about 12 cars park in the parking lot of a drugstore, blocking completely the access. It has no problem being a portal or pokestop however.
Are you going to report all major cities for having stops in the city then? They block entrances for EMS, as well as usually the Fire Hydrants are on the buildings in these areas being blocked by crowds.
Active Police station and fire station dont follow criteria.
What criteria would you be referring too? Information cited should be directly related to Niantic.
What criteria do they follow? Seems easier than explaining why they don't follow any of the criteria.
Let's also not forget this from the Candidate Action Guide:
Since the transision to Wayfarer, Niantic has dropped the "low density" exception for other candidates, such as memorial benches. So I would assume that the exemption no longer applies here.
Thats trick. Fire station only works with emergencies when there is a fire, wich is a rare condition. But I don't recall this exception for police station and hospitals.
I actually believe that no portal (ingress) might ever interfere with emergencies services, but Niantic uses the same point for other games with different userbase and playstyle that will cause trouble. They could meke different rules and an automated system to prevent waypoints nearby schools, hospitals, etc to go online, or to became less significant things with less spawn rate.
I almost forgot this category also includes Military Bases. We have 2 portals in local Naval Military Base that got submitted just recently (3 months ago) and somehow got through OPR. I've reported both as Invalid a month ago but still no response.
Doesn't say to reject a EMS sign that is not interfering with EMS. For example if a firestation sign is on the corner of a property with a sidewalk next to it. I don't see an issue with it. A sign is not the building.
And it also doesn’t say to accept those either. The guideline specifically states to not accept anything that appears to obstruct emergency services. Shouldn’t we err on the side of caution when it comes to EMS related submissions?
I agree with erring on the side of caution, but I don't take that to mean auto-reject. So many fire/police stations have public parking areas that would never cause interference with emergency services.
Fire station watch towers always was accepted by niantic in opr. So what has changed? People miss interpreting what niantic are saying is my guess.
Its always said if it interferes with emergency services not reject all.