Niantic Kids login for Ingress

Hello. I have two kids with PoGo accounts authorized via the Niantic Kids login option. I want to allow them to participate in Ingress with me, but there seems to be no available option short of creating google or facebook accounts for them. My older child has a Family Link google account for her android device, but google restricts such accounts for being used for authentication to 3rd party apps.

Since you've gone through the effort of creating the Niantic Kids infrastructure and monitoring tools, what is preventing it from being used for Ingress? It seems the only content that would be problematic for kids is chat and potentially media you release (I don't recall any troubling media, but it's possible). With the decline in player base from the Prime rollout, I would think you'd want to find ways to allow parents to train up new young agents.

Comments

  • jontebulajontebula ✭✭✭✭✭

    I hope Niantic fix it soon for Ingress. @NianticBrian

  • Pokemon is a a game that caught the attention of the little kids, but ingress? Not saying that they should not play ingress, but i have meet a lot of pogoers that just does not know how to even play and they are stuck on Low levels for months and months even playing almost daily

  • Oh I doubt many kids would choose to take up Ingress over PoGo on their own. But if a parent wants to train up a child on Ingress, there should be a way. Considering Niantic invested in an entire supervised / restricted login infrastructure for PoGo, there seems no reason to not allow it for their other flagship product Ingress

  • Totally agree with you on this one.

    However, there may be delays because the old server infrastructure of Ingress doesn't support whatever form the Niantic Kids infrastructure requires. Hopefully when they move the Ingress servers to RWP we'll see an improvement in the cross-portability of those sorts of features.

  • I'm separately submitting feedback to Google on the Family Link app to see if they'll allow parents to permit minor's google accounts to authenticate. There should be more ability to control kids activities without "giving away the farm" by creating full up adult accounts for them.

  • I would feed really bad for destroying a 8-9 years old kid his resonators.


    In the other hand, pogo does not have a chat, ingres does, maybe they need to block them to write in chat and/or block them to be able to be mentioned on the comm. Its not something just to let them play, there are probably several things to consider first.

  • That's what I mentioned in the OP: block chat if that's the only feature that is problematic. If they can handle gym battles and turnover in PoGo, they can handle their portals getting neutralized.

  • Public location sharing can be problematic for kids

  • That's actually a good point, although I'd have to wonder how a child agent's account would be publicly discernable from any other agent's to create a risk.

  • Which is why Ingress is not allowed for children under 13 and thus into the COPPA age-range. It's probably also why Niantic For Kids isn't implemented, since that was designed to support COPPA.

  • There are also plenty of 8-12 year olds out there with level 8+ accounts (not ones their parents use). If they can glyph a P8 they've been playing.

    Can be hard to stop some children joining in.

  • TheFarixTheFarix ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is irrelevant. If Niantic identifies those accounts, they are required to ban them. The simple fact that COPPA prevents companies from collecting and disseminating any information about identifiable minors under the age of 13. That includes all comm notices involving portal captures, links and fields created, and attacks along with their entire account profile. And if those notices are quashed, how long do you think it will be before someone decides to exploit it to their advantage?

  • These are all good points. I do think the responsibility and decision authority belongs with the parents. If the Niantic Kids infrastructure is already in place with a parent portal to monitor activity, it should be up to the parent to authorize or deny their kids play and activity.


    I think the "identifiable" piece is a key qualifier. Notices of an agent's activity at a portal really tell nothing about the agent. Most of the time I'm playing, I have absolutely no clue what the person on the other end of a screenname looks like: male / female, young / old, ethnicity, etc. If chat is disabled, unless someone was physically present to see a minor agent during the activity alert, there is no identifiable way to know a minor is playing the game.

  • TheFarixTheFarix ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can often identify an underage account just by behavior alone. And if you happen to know that a player is underage, you will be able to track them through the comms notices. That is what got YouTube in trouble with the FTC. YouTube was tracking non-registered visitors and were able identify those under the age of 13 and targeted ads to them. Since Niantic cannot guarentee that the activity of underage accounts will remain anonymous, that is why those under the age of 13 are not permitted to create Ingress accounts.

    Remember that people have been able to deduce where other players work and live just from comms traffic alone. It becomes a much bigger problem when the player being tracked is also underage.

  •  If the Niantic Kids infrastructure is already in place with a parent portal to monitor activity, it should be up to the parent to authorize or deny their kids play and activity.

    Except that a) it isn't for Ingress. And b) it isn't for Ingress because of the fact that Ingress is not designed for people under 13.

    Pokemon Go has very minimal reference points for player locations. Ingress has a running stream of them. It's not suitable for a minor to play Ingress, and parents who choose to do so do it at their own (and their child's) risk.

    Niantic want's no part of being a part of that because of the legal ramifications, especially in Europe.

  • XK150XK150 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You misunderstand COPPA. It applies to Niantic's other games, too, because it applies to all online services in the United States.

    There are three ways to make a service COPPA-compliant: Ban everyone under 13 or get parental consent to store/share their kids' personal information or allow kids to join without saving/sharing any personal info. That second option is what Niantic Kids is for, because the third option is basically impossible for Niantic's games.

    Niantic could allow kids to sign up for Ingress through Niantic Kids if they wanted to, but they haven't. Personally, I'm OK with that, because the Ingress community is a toxic mess that kids shouldn't be subjected to.

  • No, I understand. You're assuming all games are created equally though. COPPA requires a lot more confirmation and paperwork. And Ingress is explicitly not available for under 13s, because Ingress doesn't have the manpower to do what PoGo has to do to make it safe and accessible.

  • XK150XK150 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm not assuming anything. You're just making circular arguments, like you always do.

  • TheFarixTheFarix ✭✭✭✭✭

    You completely missed the point where players can keep track of other players using the comms notifications. In order to make Ingress COPPA compliant, those comms notifications must go. That means no portal capture notifications, no more link or field creation notifications, and not more attack notifications. The player's activity would be completely invisible to everyone else. How long do you think it would be before someone complains about those "invisible players" (presumably spoofers)?

  • I'd have thought exokicit parential consent (and supervision) would be enough.

  • There are complications to all of this. However, I feel if a parent wants to bond with their kids and capture portals and fields together, it's not hazardous enough to their welfare to warrant denying a parent's right to choose for their own kids. I do believe chat comms should be disabled, but I still feel notifications of portal activity are not attributable to a minor unless you are actually present to know who the player is. That's just my view, though.

  • Chat is pretty much disabled on prime anyway....

  • This was all decided on years ago when they raised the age limit to 13. That is the end of it, and Niantic isn't going to change that, because to allow kids under 13 would require them to remove Intel and all Activity COMM, or open themselves up to lawsuits.

    Personally, I prefer to have Ingress for Adults, than neutered junk for kids.

  • it's not hazardous enough to their welfare to warrant denying a parent's right to choose for their own kids.

    @DamionW79 Which is why kids who play are not banned. However, Niantic is not going to actively accommodate it because it's against the TOS and would open them up to civil suits if something were to happen to a child playing Ingress.

    They can't say "They shouldn't have been playing" if they make it possible.

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