[NEW] Reporting Abuse in Wayfarer
It's live. It still requires a bit of work but I do hope this can reduce the amount of false nominations and submissions. Plenty of interesting bits in this page such as issues with photos and...
'In cases where the Wayspot was invalid and should not have been approved, we may also investigate the Wayfinders involved in the approval and issue penalties based on the severity of the offense. Wayfinders who submit inappropriate reports via the form linked above may also receive a warning or punishment for repeat offenses. '
This seems a step in the right direction.
Three of the things explicitly called out as "abuse" are:
Both 2. and 3. are generally used by wayward wayfarers in an attempt to subvert Niantic's POI-spacing rules.
This is great. The one thing that worries me is that some reviewers automatically jump to the conclusion that submissions where the location is somewhat off and close to a residence are abusive attempts at a couch wayspot. I think this is wildly unfair, as there are many reasons why a pin could be incorrectly placed that don't involve any abusive intent. Unless there is something that is extremely blatant, I would certainly not report something like this as abuse and I hope others wouldn't either.
Yea some of the verbiage is a little harsh on this. I have been doing a lot of location edits to move stuff from the wrong spot to the right spot and based on this it could get reported as someone thinking I'm moving it to the wrong spot. There's no way to know if someone is moving something to the correct spot from a wrong spot or from a wrong spot to the correct spot. With Niantic this scares me that they wont do enough research on each report.
"Somewhat off" is one thing, as POIs can be large enough to have no specific "real" location.
But submitters and reviewers all see the SAME overhead imagery, and it's normally obvious when somebody is outright lying.
Titles, descriptions, or supporting information that attempt to inappropriately influence the reviewers to vote in a specific way
So any supporting info that states: "need more stops" is abuse
No, because that's only asking you to approve their submission, which is inherent in every submission.
"Invalid location edits:
Attempts to move the Wayspot to a location away from the object with which it’s associated (for example, moving the Wayspot to a different city/country)"
Which is influencing the reviewer to vote a certain way
"Need more stops" = "I'm submitting a Wayspot candidate and I hope it will be accepted"
Flag that as abuse if you want but it might be you that loses access for making repeated inappropriate reports. The guidance clearly means comments saying things like "pick the location on the left".
Perhaps this part was meant more for edits? No more editing descriptions with a request to pick spot X rather than Y.
I think the key word is "inappropriately" for example Timerciock falsely citing guidelines that don't exist?
It's poorly worded though. @NianticCasey can you give some clarity here? The whole point of the supporting information is to influence reviewers.
So after introducing this abuse form to a local Wayfarer group that mostly consists of PoGo reviewers and some Ingress reviewers, it resulted in a lengthy discussion regarding the general attitude of PoGo reviewers.
PoGo people only care for the benefit of PoGo, they will continue to submit wayspots in locations that will benefit PoGo (ie., utilising relevant s2 cell placement). They do not care if an object is just slightly off, or if an object has a large area, they will submit it where it will benefit them the most (not necessarily an ideal coordinate that represents the location, let alone care about accessibility).
There appears to be a great divide between ensuring integrity of the database through quality and accuracy, with prevailing attitudes leaning towards improving gameplay. I am of the mind that the Niantic Real World Platform should be held to a high degree of standard with regards to quality and accuracy. Gameplay is an external factor that is irrelevant to voting on wayspots and should only be considered and applied by each Niantic game/product rather than by subjective, self-fulfilling and biased communities.
The introduction of the abuse form is a good step forward, and will definitely assist in fast-tracking extreme cases of abuse. However, I don't see it being widely utilised. PoGo reviewers certainly have no incentive to use, especially since abusing the system benefits them the most (with a total disregard for database integrity).
This indicates that the root cause to a world of abuse is the way that PoGo selects what becomes gyms/stops. The methodology is known and has since become ripe for abuse. Perhaps a solution to this root cause is to add randomness to the gym/stop selection. Keep gyms within the parameters of being inside a park or whatever map labels are relevant, but make it random within those zones, thus eliminating the ability to methodologicaly game the system. Doing so would incentivise more submissions in publicly accessible locations, and eliminate abuse from PoGo players. The abuse form would still be useful for those extreme cases, however you may find there would be far less to report if the above suggestion was implemented.
Just some feedback and possible solution to consider @NianticCasey
Edit: See this example lol
This is a huge step for a vulnerability that many of us have seen in the system.
However, I think it is not enough. I hope this is the initial kick to also change the rules of the s2 cells in Pokémon GO (S2 L18 minimum). If they don't change that, it's the same as nothing, trainers will continue to abuse location edits.
Finally! I'm afraid I'll have to use that A LOT.
For germans and maybe others: Pictures getting frequently stolen from these pages
So is that only for if you coincidentally find fakes while reviewing or also if the current reviewed nomination is fake? Because I often see obvious fakes with stolen (or more like: screenshotted...) photos still being accepted. Actually... if the photo is stolen, this would go into the "photo issue" section then, so if "Fake" section doesn't fit, the "Photo" one would.
Also: How am I supposed to know which location is supposed to be the new one on a location edit? They look the same...
"What action will be taken on the report?
Once we receive the report with the necessary information, we’ll review the reported nomination/edit and other nominations/edits submitted by the submitter. Players submitting invalid nominations/edits may receive a warning, a suspension, or have their Wayfarer account terminated. In case of repeated offenses or where the submitter is not active in Wayfarer, their Ingress or Pokémon GO account may also be affected. "
These penalties make no sense. Why would a player submitting care about his Wayfarer account getting suspended? Maybe he/she isn't reviewing at all? Penalty for abusive nominations should be losing ability to submit.
Submitting and reviewing are very different things. It should be like this:
Bad submitting ---> no more submiting.
Bad reviewing ---> no more reviewing
Read the last sentence of the text you quoted...
People who don't review could have their Ingress/Pogo accounts affected -> Lose submission rights/ban maybe
So far I've submitted around 40 reports, most of them abusive edits and a few fake nominations. Haven't heard from Niantic but I do hope they investigate all of them. This is a plague in Portugal.
How do I get the location? Would be easier if the cordinates were there.
I can't get coordinates off of edits. Am I missing something?
I assume Niantic want the portal link, as it is obtainable to you before the edit go through
When doing reviews of a new nomination, the Google map window has a "open in Google maps" which allows you to view the location in the Google maps app and also lets you copy the coordinates of the candidate, which are requested when you use the report abuse form.
When reviewing an edit, I do not see the "open in Google maps" option, so I'm unsure how best to obtain the coordinates.
I’m not looking at an edit right now to confirm, but doesn’t clicking the Google logo in the bottom(?) left(?) corner of the map launch a new window?
Negative, at least not that I saw. I had two or three edits I tried getting the map link, but couldn't, @Tntnnbltn. I have done regular nominations that I've reported and was able to pull your map up without issue. I'll screenshot if I get an edit, soon.
Click on the Google logo in the left corner of the satellite map. It will open a tab with google maps. If that doesn't work. Click on maximise on the google map options and click it from there. See if your browser is not preventing new tabs from opening automatically.
See how here. (I'm just hovering my cursor over the Google logo)
Copy the full URL and paste it on the Waypoint Location. This works as well for reporting fake nominations or abuse of supporting information.
Cry and cry and cry some more. Motto of most people on here.
The one time I want to review an edit, I'm not getting any!
I think I found it. Most of the nominations for new POIs have a bigger "open in Google maps" and I just assumed it was in all of them. Thanks for the support (and screen grab).
It is for wayspots in Wayfarer or portals are live?
So, do we have any information to confirm or deny that this is working?
PoGo playes of my city are submitting invalid GPS edits in hundreds
I haven't heard anything from the communities I engage with. I review in Portugal, Spain and the UK regularly.
The number of abusive edits and fake nominations are up to the roof. It gets to a point where I question myself if I should continue to be worried about doing the right thing. The amount of rubbish submissions and edits asking to move to X or Y is so much that puts me on a cooldown after legitimately rejecting 10-20 submissions - no matter if I have +20K reviews and in Great.
@NianticCasey Sorry to bother you again, but is it possible to cast a light over this topic? Is something being done? Your DB is getting filled with fake portals and incorrect locations. Should we care?