Double Deploy - Should it be Normalized?

PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭

Before everyone screams "Teamwork! Recruiting! Friends and community!" hear me out.

The Ingress playerbase is dying, through in large part, no fault of our own. The game is aging, the Prime release was not well delivered, Niantic is doing no advertising.

Where years ago we could expect 10 or 12 people at a flash farm, organic 8s from commuters and a healthy back and forth and rebuild culture, these days in most places, we're struggling to bring 8 people from across a city, and organic 8s are far more uncommon.

And also, in some areas, people are resorting to alts and spoof accounts, to finish off those last slots.

So do we need to have the discussion on whether we should keep the 8 player requirement, or should double deploys (2x R7, 2x R8) like we've enjoyed over the last fortnight, become the new normal?

Pros:

  • P8s encourage play. When you have lots of gear, you do more. When people are starved for higher level gear, they tend to stay at home and focus more on their little patch.
  • It will encourage more social gatherings. As the player base shrinks, and people can't get 8, it gets harder to get 8 because people don't think they can. A self-fulfilling prophecy. Having to hit 4 as the base number will make social events more likely to succeed.

Cons:

  • Gear constriction of the other team is harder. When you only need 4 people, it's far harder to stop the other team from being able to make their own farms.
  • Recruiting efforts may suffer. When you don't need to get 8 people, you don't try as hard to find new Agents. I think this will be offset greatly by the ability for new agents to get high level gear though.

I expect I'll get a lot of Disagree on this, but think about it with an open mind for a bit. Consider why the deploy limits exist, and what changing them does each time we have these events.

Will we ever get the playerbase of 2014 back? And if not, should we consider how we change to cope with that?

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Comments

  • Happy new year! 😁

  • GreenVamGreenVam ✭✭✭✭

    Cheaters with 2 smartphones have 2x l8. With 3 or 4 accounts thay can place 3 or 4 l8.

  • Still don't think that's a good idea.If smb want some L8 resos they still can be obtained with L7 portal.Double deploy will only lead to more L8 portals built by "bad actors".

    Happy new 2020:)

  • MirthmakerMirthmaker ✭✭✭
    edited January 1

    Double deploy as limited time bonus is the right place. I also liked the bonus for taking down links/fields as it made players think very hard about whether or not to throw that link knowing links draw company.

    I have only been playing a year in high portal density, very active environment. What is needed more than double deploy, is promotion. If you spend 1/10 of what you spend on Go for promotion of new players, I think the playbase will be percentage higher.

  • Here's my only take on this. I like the idea but I really feel like if we make the game "easier" in this way I would prefer we tie it to something else so there is some effort. Perhaps you can tie it to the subscription idea that's been thrown around? Or double deploy can only happen on certain days? Limit the amount of portals you can double deploy on per day? I'm just throwing stuff out there.

  • I don't think that the double deploy actually encouraged more playing or created a disadvantage by having stronger portals at least not in my area. Agents seemed to level up in high turnover area, with dense portal population and low level portals. This competition did not seem to encourage competition between newer agents. I did see recursed, seasoned Agents take advantage of the double AP who took down farms and fields, but they were the exception, rather than the norm. It is hard to say that double deploys actually increased the activity. I feel I observed new agents playing to earn the deploy badge and/or seasoned player who took advantage of the double AP by using strategies that are naturally part of their play style. I would be interested to see monthly events, with NO badge attached to the events to be able to really evaluate the impact of game changes, such as double deployments. This would be more insightful to see if agents are trying to earn a badge or if they are playing more, because they received a bonus or advantage for actually playing the game.

  • PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2

    This isn't a reward. It's a temporary change during an event. And yes, the point is, are we at a stage where the playerbase is such that we need to have this temporary change made permanent for the good of the game...

    And thus, threads like this discuss the pro's and con's from the player point of view, to inform the development team of the various expectations of the player base.

    As a corrective measure is exactly what it is. The symptom we're facing may never go away. Part of this discussion touches on whether we believe the playerbase size can be turned around, or whether we're at a permanent 'new normal.

    Selling R8s in the store is something I've pushed for a long time, but has been flatly denied by @NianticBrian and others before him. I do feel like we're at a point where something has to give, and there's a lot of different options, but in the aftermath of having this advantage I felt it was worth discussing the idea of the double deploys now.

    Also, there was one shining moment in May 2014, when Brisbane was filled with EP8s, and for about 30 minutes one night, we managed to make the entire city free of all RP8s and all RP7s.

  • I could see the double deploy being given to a recursed agent. So far there hasn't been any benefit to recursing. But the real problem is more people are leaving the game than entering. So getting gear to even play has become more difficult for many areas. The cheaters will always get gear even without farming. Leaving the legitimate players to rely on lower level portals to try to compete. It's an unfair balance that unfortunately hasn't been addressed. So allowing double deploy to recursed agents at least will give them a chance to compete against the unlimited gear from those bad agents.

  • M42M42 ✭✭✭

    There is benefits to Recursing, from Level 9 up you receive 3 VRHS and VRMH in your levelling Field Kit. So that's 24 of each, each recursion, that's a lot more than most people would hack. I admit, I'd like to see more benefits, but there are some.

  • We didnt need a new normal. We needed a new platform for classic ingress.

    But instead, we've got the primepocalypse, and nothing but promises for more of it.

  • ZinkyZonkZinkyZonk ✭✭✭

    Hmmm.... I really love being able to deploy double 8s. Super fun to go around with another agent and make P7s .... heaps of fun! Maybe have this double 8s thing for more events? Maybe 4th Friday of the month double deploy for 72 hours? Not quite convinced that double deploy of 8s should be an everyday thing for agents recursed or otherwise.

  • PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭

    No-one ever asks for a new normal. It is usually foisted upon them.

  • No. Because: “Teamwork! Recruiting! Friends and community!”

    I play since beta and we’re proud when we started having enough players to make L8 and also to destroy the opposite faction L8 portals in the city.

    It’s part of the base gameplay of Ingress and also a small thing that some events bring to us. If they do change this to the “normal” will have multiple effect even on the small events for us.

    I do understand your point but on the overall I disagree it will make Ingress any better, only easier to make P8 and people farm.

  • PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭

    only easier to make P8 and people farm.

    That is kinda the point.

  • KhatreKhatre ✭✭✭✭

    You don't need l8 to play.

    Double r8 is boring at best

  • GreenVamGreenVam ✭✭✭✭

    Cheaters with 8 accounts will nevertheless make a level 8 portal. So why not give honest players the same opportunity?

  • GearGliderGearGlider ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like the idea of a once a month flare-up similar to first saturdays.


    Ingress can benefit more smaller, but frequent/consistant events. I can't tell you the number of inactive agents I know who hear about a big event after the fact and bemone how they couldn't participate because they made other plans. First Saturdays are nice, but not many areas have them (yes, yes I know make my own) and the areas that do sometimes have them a very long drive away that more casual agents aren't interested in.

    Having more non-location based events like double deploy or AP multipliers would help draw in more casual and inactive agents who aren't paying attention to the erractic event schedule.


    Having dailies would also help this out but that's another conversation.

  • The permanent ability to drop a second R8 is a pretty big change. Personally, I would like it if it was included as perk in a character-specialization system (skill tree). To quote / shamelessly promote an earlier comment I made in this thread:

    "2 points: Deploy a 3rd R6 ➡️ 4 points: Deploy a 2nd R7 ➡️ 8 points: Deploy a 2nd R8"

  • Something that would benefit whom constantly tap recurse bottom is the possibility to deploy more than 2 reso L5 and L6 (but never L7 or L8) or insert eight L3 or L4 for example, for microfielding it's a good idea I guess.

     And it does not give advantages that unbalance the dispute. 

  • PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭

     And it does not give advantages that unbalance the dispute. 

    It also doesn't address the issue in the initial post.

  • GaskkascohkkaGaskkascohkka ✭✭
    edited August 12

    No, the double eight deploy is killing the game. At least for me. We are outnumbered already, the double deploy makes it too easy to for the other side.

    It ends up being an injust, unbalanced game where effortness is lost.

    Its probably another thread but, the declining playerbase is in my experience a result of the lack of rule enforcing from NIAs side. Fake portals, legit portals being stopped by groups, multiple accounts and a general lack of community values. Thats where to look, double eight is the wrong direction.

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