Question on how shields work

There was a change in how shields work in the game in the beginning of 2019 I believe.

I have three fresh examples from today:

(1) Level 7 portal with 3 mods: Aegis shield, Common shield, Turret

(2) Level 7 portal with 3 mods: Very Rare shield, Rare shield, Turret

(3) Level 7 portal with 3 mods: Very Rare shield, Common shield, Turret

Portal (1) was attacked. Single level 8+ attacker. When I checked the portal to see if recharging was possible there was just a Common Shield on it. I recharged for a bit but portal was destroyed by the attacker.

A portal close to portal (2) and (3) was attacked and destroyed. Single level 8+ attacker. Portal (2) and (3) is still standing:

(2) Level 7 portal now with 2 mods: Rare shield, Turret

(3) Level 7 portal now with 2 mods: Common shield, Turret

This is three examples from just today that the most rare shields jumps from the portals first. 

Before the change less rare shields jumped from the portal first and more rare shields stayed on longer. This seems more natural/logical to me that something more rare is better.

What is the idea behind this? This is happening so often so it is no coincidence it is a game engine change.

I truly can't get my head around this -so I figured I would ask here.

How should I think? Any strongest shield takes one hit then jumps off and then the next strongest takes the next hit then jumps off and so on? Then I can fire with low level xmp:s to get the most rare shields like Aegis and Very Rare shield off the portal using critical hits? Then why do I need high level firepower like level 7, 8? And why do we have very rare shields if they jump off first?

Help me understand the new Ingress.

Comments

  • I haven’t noticed any change with exception to aegis coming off quicker then they used to. While I’m removing shields with ultrastrikes, I do occasionally pause and check to see what shields remain. Fairly often the stronger shields will go first. This is why I check, because if so I may just switch to bursters. It’s not the most common result though. I did a drive-by smash on a fair portion of the city, last night. The portals that remained in my wake all had VR shields or aegis on them. I do a lot of drive-by smashing, and to this day, if there’s an aegis on the portal I have to find a place to park, get out of my car, and find a way to get on top of a portal. Of course there is some exception, but commonly I don’t want to waste the gear to find out.

  • The most easiest way to explain this is to land a 'critical strike' on the mod.

    Mods have no XM, a critical hit takes it out. all mods except shields are taken out easily because of this.

    Shields has a hidden stat called 'mitigation' or 'stickiness', where you can check on the portal JSON data.

    Search google, I'm not going to dive into this deeply.

    The result is, They defend critical strike by chance. On lucky occasions I removed Aegis' with Lv6 busters. On other days 40 Lv8 Ultrastrikes doesn't take the shield down.

  • It just works

  • Mitigation and stickiness are not the same thing. Not if you’re regarding the mitigation each shield provides for the portal, which is the percentage stat associated with it. Stickiness is dependent on the likelihood a critical hit will remove the shield itself. This is chance. The shield, itself, mitigates (lessens) the damage to the resonators. Chance can be associated with percentage of course. A 25% chance of knocking a shield off means that 1 out of every 4 critical hits should result in the shield popping off. Think of it as a 4 sided die. Whereas a shield with 70% mitigation is lessening the damage the resos are receiving with every hit.

  • You must attack more portals and preferible not togheter, because xmp and randomness start overlapping in shields and critical hits.

    And perfect 20% hit could destroy one or more mods in near portals.

  • Everyone is correct, there's randomness and you're looking at a very small data sample. You'll learn more attacking than defending as then you know exactly what you fired.

    Short answer to your what changed question is the stickiness was reduced. It's much easier to knock an aegis off now.

  • mortuusmortuus ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23

    There is no randomness when the strongest shields in my city pop off first, and turrets is usually the last mod that sits.. 3 years ago it was axas that was the last shield when someone attacked a farm, today aegis pops off from a single US or 2.. its garbage how easy a lvl8+ player can tear down lots of portals where 2-3 years ago in my town there was a reason frogs had to be 2-3 players to take down same area where a single lvl8+ player can do this alone with no problems....


    all this talk about critical hits and mitigation means nothing because again the strongest shield should not always go down first but it does? explain that? something has changed thats a fact... because when a turret is the last mod to sit then there is something very wrong with how shields work then...


    U need 8 players to build a lvl 8 portal but all it takes is a lvl 8 player to tear down many as long as u got enough bursters some shields wont stop a player if they really want take down portals they will unless 10 players recharge against then it could be an issue.

  • MuzzgoodMuzzgood ✭✭✭
    edited November 26

    Of course I was sure You all would eat my liver out for posting something like that ... so I decided to do some field research.

    I suggest You all do that too. It is kind of hard to see what is happen!ng when attacking -but quite soon You start to see the pattern.

    Yes of course it is randomness involved. But the pattern is in favour for the strongest shield jumping first and otherwise is the exception.

    Check it out! The most rare shield jumps first. The pattern is conisistent. My god -are You all playing the game yourself You must have seen this!? I am mainly but not exclusively using ultrastrikes here.

    @nianticbrian I would call this a bug wouldn't you?

    And it is very rude towards the agents that have invested their finest shields to protect their portal!

    Yeah -and for the data set size. How about 11 months of observation with 4-5 attacks a day on portals -is that good enough for You?

    It was not just one shield nerf (Aegis) -it was all of them by changing the game engine. I played 3 years before the change.

    How is this a game improvement making common shields the shield that stays the longest on the portal?

    I just can't belive high level players are whining about shield nerfing. Learn how to fire! 2x US8 and the best shields jumps off. Do You want them to jump off when You are in range? Maybe the portal change color when You are in range?

    There is no mod You can put on a portal to protect it as the game is right now. Is that fair?

    Ehh it was years ago that 40 ultrastrikes was needed for shields ... and also that was an iphone bug. If You restarted the game 15 ultrastrikes was already many. Today one or two is needed.

    Post edited by Muzzgood on
  • I still don't see any data, just some tiny screenshots.

    Look, the big shields got nerfed. Niantic flat out said that. It was done specifically for the result you're complaining about. It's not a bug, it's an adjustment to the game mechanics. You may not like it but there it is.

  • mortuusmortuus ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26

    so why do we even have shields then? why not remove them so a lvl 1 player can take down high lvl farms, because thats what players today want, they dont want to fight to take down something like few years ago... this game is way too easy today... pointless having shields when they do nothing to help..


    game today is just in big favor for the attacker, not someone or several people that spent hours building something can be taken down in 20min by a single lvl8+ player.. that is just a wrong direction this game is going imo..

  • So I did some field research the other morning. Not much, given how cold it was but I found two oppo portals with mods. First one had a turret and a common shield. Hit it with some ultras. Common shield poofed, so I guess kinda that's the highest shield going first.

    Second portal had a Very Rare shield, Rare shield and a force amp. Hit it with a couple ultras. Force amp gone. Hit it with a couple more. Rare shield gone. Hit it a few more times with ultras. VRS still there. Blasted it with xmp until it died. VRS hung on to the bitter end.

    Look, if your standing farm is getting blasted, move it. This is a location based game, not a shield based game. Honestly the game mechanics are kinda dumb but the location factor is what makes it not your average dumb phone game.

  • HydraulinskiHydraulinski ✭✭✭✭✭

    What if AP gained from destroying be halved (1/4 from what you gain building the same thing)?

  • MuzzgoodMuzzgood ✭✭✭

    Its a good idea seen from the single player view. In my eyes it doesnt solve the balance problem that one single player today easily destroys many peoples collective efforts.

    Individual teardown is rewarded over collective building efforts. With weak shields it becomes a stronger right to take than to keep. Exactly @SlicedPeas should just passing a portal be enough to take it with little or no effort? Then is it Ingress? Or pokemon? Or what?

    That rare shields behave like better shields than less rare shields should be fixed in the attack dynamics I think, such things are basic in a game - otherwise just skip different kind of shields and just have one kind of shields or no shields. That the most rare shield jumps first more often than occasionally is a bug - maybe it is fixed already then.

  • Aegis shields do come off easier then they used to. I do not prefer it. That, I will agree with you on. I do not agree that the rarer the shield, the quicker it comes off though. VR shields do stick better then common and rare. I know you don’t agree with me. I just spent near 1000 bursters, last night, and it was the portals with VR and aegis shields that cost me most of my gear. It is easier then it used to be, which disappoints me, but I plainly disagree with the blanket statement that the rarest shields come off first. Yes, it happened on occasion, but it is not the standard.

  • mortuusmortuus ✭✭✭✭

    in my town usually turrets is the last mod that sticks last.. not sure how i can explain how a turret has more stickyness then a vr shield or aegis many times :/

  • MuzzgoodMuzzgood ✭✭✭
    edited November 30

    Fair enough no need to agree. Nia has the source code they know. But it is hard to see its in the dynamics happening when the portal is under attack, you have to be very fast to see the pattern when firing multiple shots both xmp and us.

    And yes it is common with portals that has been attacked with only a turret or a common heatsink och a link amp left as last mod all shields gone. I am sure that any former stickiness algorithm for shields was rewritten in the beginning of 2019 somewhere there in time and stickiness was probably shortcut serverside for shields in some fix and/or critical hit rules modified.

    More superpowers to the already stronger attacker. As an oldtimer attacker used to Axa strength tearing down today is childs play. I don't see the fairness in that but I do understand why frackers are used - building farm portals is really hard to make them survive.

    My english fails here but I dont think I have said that the rarer the shield, the quicker it comes off? What I said is that if attacking a portal with 3 shields VR R and C, it is more often than occationally - even common - that the first shield that is sh0t off the portal is the VR. Then the next to be sh0t off is the R and left on the portal is the C. I was using mainly us8 in my field test standing right on the portal.

    Might have been fixed already. I really hope so because it is just silly. Zoom my picture and take a look how it worked a week ago. Not for all portals but for a sadly big number I didnt have the patience to film it all maybe next time. I have a lot at work and havent had time for a new field research.

    (jezez censored the word sh0t? Luckily I dont understand the english reason for that)

    Post edited by Muzzgood on
  • starwortstarwort ✭✭✭✭

    (jezez censored the word sh0t? Luckily I dont understand the english reason for that)

    Nor do the rest of us. Join the discussion here: https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/6931/

  • MuzzgoodMuzzgood ✭✭✭
    edited December 3

    Additional info: an oldtimer (Innovator) agent reported this today after tearing down a major area:

    "I agree that the VR shields jumps first"

    I takes an effort to be fast enough looking what is really happening during the attack dynamics, to watch this while weapons are still hitting the portal.

    From what I know US8 was used - but since I know the agent - probably all weapons available was used 😁

    (oh today is a year since latest shield nerf)

Sign In or Register to comment.