Portal Guidelines / Conflicting Ideas
GodZillaz88
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Two (very common) portal submissions that have been driving me crazy lately, I am curious what others interpretations would be
#1 - Little Free Libraries - honestly I cringed when Niantic said they should in general be approved (I would rather it was a one off portal, maybe voted because popular or artistic looking). But the problem is now we are getting flooded with Little Free Library portals to review and my issue is 99% of them are PAST THE SIDEWALK LINE (aka they are physically located on private residential property). As such I think they deserve 1* but others have argued that Niantic allows them.
#2 - Condo Playgrounds / Gazebos / Fountains / Art / Plaques / etc - a condominium is private residential property. No diff than a house. You are not allowed to trespass. But again Niantic made a comment about if a location is "accessible to some" so many people are voting in these portals & submitting nominations for more.
I started to submit invalid portal requests but am I wrong or is it just many players dont read the rules? Or is Niantic changing rules the issue here?
*edited to add #3
#3 - Another fairly common issue that happens in small / rural towns that worries me. What do you guys say about mixed use buildings? I have seen so many where a large single building is built. Half the building is a Public School. Half the building is the rec centre / library. They do this to save $$$$ during construction and all but this is really straining the issue with trying not to approve portals on school grounds
Comments
#1 - LFL on Private Residential Property should be rejected. ONLY if the LFL is actually on someones property.
#2 - While Condo's can be Single Family PRP, things like community Playgrounds, Gazebos, and Fountains should still be acceptable as they are community space not PRP. Now if its someones backyard Playground than yes that is PRP and should be rejected.
#1 is almost always on someones property (I dont know if laws in other countries are different, but here - Canada - between sidewalk and street belongs to city (if ANYTHING is built here it is removed by city at owners expense, even a tree) and between sidewalk and house is private property belonging to home owner.
To clarify original post, it is on private property but would be accessible from sidewalk which is why this debate is ongoing locally.
#2 the issue at stake with the condo is definition of single person private (the actual living space) vs group of people private (the communal space). So a Gazebo on condo grounds can often only be accessible by condo residents (eg restricted access such as locked gates or guard houses) but as it is accessible by more than 1 property owner I am torn if that would fall under same line of reasoning as say a military base or a paid admission locale. The Gazebo would be owned by more than one family/person.
To add to that, in Niantic's opinion, "private property" extends ALL the way to the road from the PRP, regardless of your particular municipality's local "easement" rules. In brief, it does NOT matter which side of the sidewalk the POI is on, it's an automatic rejection in Wayfarer.
This was very definitively specified in a former @RedSoloCup AMA.
But it would be helpful if @NianticCasey or somebody else could reiterate that in the Wayfarer website info.
It does not fall under the same restrictions as military bases. Communal spaces in neighborhoods and apartment complexes are allowed.
Lets focus on #2, that Gazebo would still be 100% acceptable as its common space for the condo residents. Not everyone needs access, just like a neighborhood pool is only accessible to the neighborhood its acceptable.
There is currently a massive debate on r/TheSliphRoad on the LFL. Given how many people read that. Either being more explicit in Wayfarer directions or having a having a Naintic employee weigh in on that would be nice. It's apparently confusing many people. Although I personally think the answer is clear.
#1 - Little Free Libraries - honestly I cringed when Niantic said they should in general be approved (I would rather it was a one off portal, maybe voted because popular or artistic looking). But the problem is now we are getting flooded with Little Free Library portals to review and my issue is 99% of them are PAST THE SIDEWALK LINE (aka they are physically located on private residential property). As such I think they deserve 1* but others have argued that Niantic allows them.
No LFL should be on private residential property (single family homes) or cause anyone to trespass on private residential property. This including any "easements" since reviewers are not expected to know the nuance of where easements lay.
#2 - Condo Playgrounds / Gazebos / Fountains / Art / Plaques / etc - a condominium is private residential property. No diff than a house. You are not allowed to trespass. But again Niantic made a comment about if a location is "accessible to some" so many people are voting in these portals & submitting nominations for more.
Condos are not single family residences, so anything in the common area is valid, even if access to those areas is restricted to condo owners and their guests.
#3 - Another fairly common issue that happens in small / rural towns that worries me. What do you guys say about mixed use buildings? I have seen so many where a large single building is built. Half the building is a Public School. Half the building is the rec centre / library. They do this to save $$$$ during construction and all but this is really straining the issue with trying not to approve portals on school grounds
Public libraries are acceptable wayspots, even if the building is physically attached to the school. However, if it is a school library with a public entrance, then it should be rejected. However, be careful of wayspots outside of the library. If it appears to be on school grounds, play it safe and reject it.
I read that and the one letting people know how to check for existing wayspots it's fun to see PoGo players say they don't care about the rules and quantity over quality etc. I'm so glad I took the time to learn a new game and thoroughly learned the guidelines and participate in AMAs now that none of it matters
I saw the comments as well. Extremely annoying. It's just I get irritated with the attitude of not following the rules that some have. Not all but enough.
Acceptable locations for a LFL: churches, parks, city hall/chamber of commerce, local store, libaries, etc.
Not acceptable locations: anything in a residential neighborhood where it's even mildly questionable if it should be considered private property
Please be sure to closely review nominations whose real-world location appears to be within 40 meters of private, single-family residential property, and nominations whose real-world location appears to be in a neighborhood park. To be clear, nominations should be rejected if their real-world location appears to be on private, single-family residential property or might encourage people to go onto private property (e.g., because the real-world location is at the end of a private driveway).
https://wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/help#ineligible-wayspots
#3 - Another fairly common issue that happens in small / rural towns that worries me. What do you guys say about mixed use buildings? I have seen so many where a large single building is built. Half the building is a Public School. Half the building is the rec centre / library. They do this to save $$$$ during construction and all but this is really straining the issue with trying not to approve portals on school grounds
Honestly, i don't know why people try to toe the line when it comes to school property POI. There are so many other potential nominees out there, just stay away from the schools and submit something that is not going to stir controversy. do you really need a spin/gym there? No, you don't. just go to the park and submit more sports fields/courts.
It is actually the belief that the rules are wrong and children should be able to play pokemon afterschool at their school's playground. People are submitting actual elementary schools.
#2 - Condo Playgrounds / Gazebos / Fountains / Art / Plaques / etc - a condominium is private residential property. No diff than a house. You are not allowed to trespass. But again Niantic made a comment about if a location is "accessible to some" so many people are voting in these portals & submitting nominations for more.
Private Residential Property and Private Single Family Residential Property are different. The gazebo in your backyard isn't accessible to anyone but your family. But the gazebo at a condo/apt complex is accessible to all who reside there. It's communal. Just because it's not for everyone, doesn't make it invalid
Then I hope those people lose their privilege to submit nominations
Most try the fields or the playground which I can understand the confusion but it was the actual school submissions that were annoying. Clearly don't care.
I hope we don't spend too much time in these forums - let's pick up the axe, open Wayfarere and REJECT REJECT REJECT. Nothing kills motivation of trolls than strings of rejections.
Old ingress rules do not apply anymore. Niantic should clarify this in the wayfarer help. So i suggest you throw away those ama's and just use the wayfarer help.
it's insane to require a pokemon player to know and follow the ama discussions. Niantic should stop all ama's about "portals" in the current form and make them separate, a wayfarer AMA that is published on the wayfarer help.
I tried to tag @RedSoloCup on that, but there is a great deal of misinformation being spread around in the Silph Road subreddit. And any time someone tries to correct it using AMA quotes, they get shouted down with comments like the one above.
We have been collectively pinging NianticCasey and so on to please do clarify the clarifications and keep everything all centralized and consistent. And somehow they still pushed Wayfarer out to the Pokemon masses before that was completed. There are still quite a few old AMAs that haven't yet been incorporated into the new texts.
I'm looking at some patently ridiculous things on reddit myself today, and ... it's not worth the negative karma to argue with them there. Somebody else already has made all my points, so at least they get my updoot.
Yeah I saw you in there. I don't have an account which is probably for the best but I knew this was coming and I shouldn't care this much since it's ultimately Niantics fault but it sucks when I see people work so hard to be helpful and give resources and get snotty entitlement in return. Everything feels kind of pointless.
From Reddit:
We have lots of little free library stops in town. I get that Niantic wants as a general rule for us not to submit them, because Niantic can’t get too granular in their rules since they have global considerations. But in my town, we all know that a LFL is by definition and design, a community resource. As in they are explicitly intended for public use. Nobody builds them on their property without expecting the public to use them. So in many ways they are already a public POI whether recognized by Niantic or not, that’s is literally the point of why they exist.
Translation: Niantic's PRP restrictions on LFLs are an inconvenience, thus, I'm going to ignore them. @RedSoloCup @NianticCasey We really need you guys to go in there and knock some heads because we are clearly not getting through.
@GodZillaz88 fresh off the newest AMA
Q: imseethru - Can we clearly say no POIs are allowed on school grounds?
A: That is literally the policy. “PLEASE DON’T SUBMIT Candidates on the grounds of PRIMARY/SECONDARY SCHOOLS”. Source: https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/ingress/?p=web&l=en&s=portal-network&f=ingress-portal-criteria
Note: Uppercase is not mine. That is how it reads on the website. I am not trying to shout over text.
@TheFarix Next time when on a pokemon go subreddit tag I want to say it's NianticIndigo or something similar. But I don't think people posting those comments would listen anyways.
Did they not read the reasoning? They are to be rejected due to the proximity to people's houses and we are to not even consider the easement same reason any object at 4 way intersection is invalid if it sitting next to PRP and no clear separation. They are not going to acknowledge easements in front of PRP period no matter the submission. Quite honestly it is time Wayfarer is given its own community and a link is posted on the webpage when logging in. It would allow any eligible player that can submit and review have conversations because at the moment only ingress and harry potter have official forums to discuss the issues with their particular game and pokemon go does not.
checks out considering some of the submissions we have been getting seem to be sent in via minors. It is obvious when some of the submissions are poorly worded and are of bulletin boards in schools. I mean if I am getting a submission inside of a middle school there is a chance it could be a student going there. This is not good don't know how niantic is going to handle these situations.