Is it Unique? The curious case of the Baseball Field rejection.

PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭

Baseball fields. They're ubiquitous to almost every US sporting field complex. They all look the same, they all have the same size, the same colour of dirt, completely unremarkable, completely NOT unqiue.

So in Wayfarer, they're a 1 star for Visually Unique

A visually unique nomination should not be something that is common in the area.

Seems simple.

And for a long time, that was fine. However, recently, playing fields, parks, pools, and all sorts of other exercise related, but otherwise unremarkable things are getting rejected.

Nomination does not appear to be visually unique.

Well, yeah. But it's still a portal right?

@NianticCasey what are we expected to do here.

  1. Rate it 3* for not visually unique, but not "something something" negative?
  2. Rate it 1* for not visually unique, even though we rated it 5* for "Should be a portal"?


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  • JSteve0JSteve0 ✭✭✭

    This is why I have cringed as I have read other reviewers just marking every pavilion as 5,5,1,1 Niantic does need to clarify if common eligible nominations are commonly unremarkable in appearance.

  • JSteve0JSteve0 ✭✭✭

    As pointed out in a similar thread, wayfarer guidance includes this

    Visual Uniqueness

    Does the nomination stand out from its surroundings? Wayspots that are easy to locate and visually distinct from the buildings and objects nearby make high-quality Wayspots and should be rated highly. If you think the nomination looks bland and will be hard to locate, give it a lower rating.

  • PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭

    A playing field isn't exactly distinctive, which is the point. So yes it might be bland but that's not a reason to deny it.

  • The guide seems to emphasize that the visual uniqueness is not just whether it "looks bland", but whether it's easy to locate. A baseball field is extremely easy to locate due to its size and distinguishing features.

  • JSteve0JSteve0 ✭✭✭

    In order for it to be a 1* it would to be both bland and difficult to locate.

  • Didn't a previous AMA clarify that if the field is one of many in a complex, then it should be a single candidate, not each individual field? Similar to a Disc Golf course. This whole "Sports Field #1,2,3,4,5" **** is getting out of hand IMO.

  • Each park is laid out differently and labeled differently. I know we were told to put it on the sign which in theory should stop some of the clearly stupid stuff since baseball fields are typically labeled behind home plate and people were dumping them randomly anywhere on the field to be in the correct S2 cell.

  • AnlashokAnlashok ✭✭✭

    If I can't find a sign - or there doesn't appear to be a sign - I'll put it in the closest publicly-accessible space that isn't on the field proper; if I can find any bleachers (or things that significantly resemble bleachers), I'll put the pin there. If not, I'll put it outside the home plate fence.

  • RostwoldRostwold ✭✭✭

    "A visually unique nomination should not be something that is common in the area" <- that's a problem.

    "the area" might mean 100 square feet, or it might mean North America.

  • grendelwulfgrendelwulf ✭✭✭✭✭

    So if there are a dozen baseball fields in one general area all submittied as "field 1" "field 2" "field 3" etc with no way to actually discern a difference then they are not unique?

  • RostwoldRostwold ✭✭✭

    That's my reading of it. If there are a lot of one type of thing together in one area, then you submit the group, not the individual elements of the group.

  • KliffingtonKliffington ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's not what they said at all and Wayfarer confirmed you can submit multiple of similar things

  • I believe it's still a judgement call based on all facts. 2 fields spaced widely apart are different than 3 groups of 4 fields where each group has all the home plates touching each other and the submitter dumped the pin **** nilly on the field for certain spacing optimization. Still all numbered fields but there are certain configurations that need to be submitted as a unit.

  • grendelwulfgrendelwulf ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I submitted mine I did that. Put the pin at the center of four fields and called it "Diamonds 1,2,3,4" "Diamonds A,B,C,D" which is how the fields are named on their respective placards.

  • sophielabsophielab ✭✭✭
    edited November 15

    Excellent. It's important not interfere with general gameplay for the park. At least someone has commonsense.

  • RostwoldRostwold ✭✭✭

    Here's the actual wording from Wayfarer help: "Objects installed in a series can be submitted as a group or individually, depending on the distance between them. If they are relatively close together and share a single sign, consider them as a single Wayspot, but please ensure that the objects are in fact related before nominating. If they are relatively far apart, consider them as multiple Wayspots."

  • kholman1kholman1 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 16

    The most current guide was they prefer signs or the marker for the complex or field but they did say each individual field was valid as long as it wasn't interfering with the gameplay. So theoretically field #1, #2, #3 are valid even if does not have a sign as long as you can prove it is an individual field hence why I personally recommend using the back plates to drop the pin to distinguish the field as it is visible from satellite view. I would also like to point out it doesn't have to be at the back plate just touching the poi even if it is in the outfield fence still valid even if people don't like the location. To be honest I hate to say this but people are following the rules and complaining about baseball fields should the least of people's problems arguing over a valid poi is nonsense to be quite frank. I mean niantic wants more POI just because people don't like them doesn't mean others will. These are used by the other games. Trying to be fair about the submissions process. I mean it should be an easy 5* and a upgrade point. I recently did a set of four fields as 2 POI instead of 4 due to the distance separating the back plates. They are "(Park name)Practice Fields #1 and #2" and "(Park name)Practice Fields #3 and #4"

  • @NianticCasey Could they consider clarifying the "in the area" in Wayfarer? I have always taken it to mean the area around the POI where we check for duplicates (so relatively small).

    You said, "your regular run-of-the-mill baseball field... is not visually unique."

    But doesn't that depend on the area? If a plain old baseball field is the ONLY baseball field around, wouldn't that still get a high visually unique rating?

  • but they did say each individual field was valid as long as it wasn't interfering with the gameplay. So theoretically field #1, #2, #3 are valid even if does not have a sign as long as you can prove it is an individual field 

    @kholman1 can you site where this was stated? I'm just not finding that directive anywhere and I can adjust my voting accordingly if that's the case

  • 0X00FF000X00FF00 ✭✭✭✭

    A 1* rating ANYWHERE is a “This should be rejected because” vote. If enough confused people vote similarly on any given category, then yes the submission will be rejected.

    This is an intended and expected behaviour.

  • AnlashokAnlashok ✭✭✭

    Not the guy you asked, but the closest I can find is on the "Potentially Confusing Nominations" page, under the heading of "Objects installed in a series":

    Objects installed in a series - Objects installed in a series can be submitted as a group or individually, depending on the distance between them. If they are relatively close together and share a single sign, consider them as a single Wayspot, but please ensure that the objects are in fact related before nominating. If they are relatively far apart, consider them as multiple Wayspots.

    I would consider multiple sports fields of a similar type (softball, baseball, football, etc.) in the same area - e.g. a park or sports complex - to fall under the heading of "Objects installed in a series".

    Therefore, by the guidance of the aforementioned section: if each field had its own identifying sign, I would consider it appropriate to submit each individual field as a separate candidate (and, by extension, to consider each such nomination with reasonable independence from the others).

    (This goes double for fields that have unique identifications; e.g., "Alfred Bryant Field at Anytown Park", "Charlie Dutton Field at Anytown Park" instead of "Anytown Park: Baseball Field #1", "Anytown Park: Baseball Field #2", et cetera, et cetera, and so forth.)

  • StallionMangStallionMang ✭✭✭
    edited November 17

    I don't agree that athletic fields should be viewed as objects. I look at that more like a memorial park with a series of statues/plaques, a sculpture park, even stations of the cross. But if "So and So Little League" complex has 14 baseball fields and they're numbered 1-14, the complex itself should be the sole submission. I would agree that if the fields are uniquely named w/signs, those should be considered individually.

    Post edited by StallionMang on
  • Baseball fields qualify as portals

    When you review a portal, you are reviewing THAT portal's validity, regardless of density

    Ergo, a complex with 14 baseball fields has 14 qualified POIs.

    Sorry you don't like Niantic's process, but that's the system we play by.

  • kholman1kholman1 ✭✭✭✭

    Recent AMAs and even Casey's comment mention fields without a sign. I know they prefer signs and reference submitting the sign but if the city doesn't have the money or funds to place signs like I have seen in some small towns or practice back plates I just use the park name with baseball field in the title and description placing it on the backplate and with more than 1 that aren't like 20m together I will do #1, #2, #3 etc. If the fields say #1 etc I will take a picture of the #1 or name. I do my homework. I also will say this also some parks will do color themes and the seating areas will have like a red canopy, blue canopy, orange etc. so what I did was take a 16:9 photo and got the seating area as well as the field and named them red, green, orange etc. The field that got denied for visuals got approved in 36 hours after I resubmitted it.

  • RostwoldRostwold ✭✭✭

    Which part of "If they are relatively close together and share a single sign, consider them as a single Wayspot" are you having trouble understanding?

  • I missed the part where I'm supposed to assume they all share a single sign. Most sports complexes have individual labels for each field, even if it's just a boring number. Considering how large one is, they are often easy to be far enough apart for individual portals.

  • RostwoldRostwold ✭✭✭

    You're still missing the point. You wrote "you are reviewing THAT portal's validity, regardless of density", but Wayfarer says "If they are relatively close together and share a single sign, consider them as a single Wayspot". Density DOES matter.

    Nobody is suggesting you assume anything about single signs, obviously you should look for evidence of signs.

  • Your quote is quite incomplete.

    "Objects installed in a series can be submitted as a group or individually, depending on the distance between them. If they are relatively close together and share a single sign, consider them as a single Wayspot, but please ensure that the objects are in fact related before nominating. If they are relatively far apart, consider them as multiple Wayspots."

    Even if I grant you being "in a series" just because there are multiple, it says they can be submitted as a group OR INDIVIDUALLY. The distance between them is subjective to who is nominating and who reviews it.

    My point was that they don't inherently lose qualifying as POIs just because there is more than 1.

  • kholman1kholman1 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 17

    Yes and people assume that there must a plaque otherwise they aren't valid. Niantic spelled it out but people won't read the guide or try to still interpret it as no sign not valid. To be perfectly honest some people ruined a lot of fields early on using the concession stand as the complex which isn't even valid. People are trying to fix things. I have seen crappy ones from early ingress submissions trying to submit the playground and everything under the park as a single poi. Very bad interpretations early on have caused issues. To be honest if the fields are spread out even if they don't submit the sports complex dedication and each field has a sign on it they have a choice of which way to submit it if the fields are far enough apart do not have to have a sign or plaque. To be honest the way niantic is saying it if you have them very close if you have a plaque send them in as one poi if they are spread out use multiple submissions if each one has a sign so if they are say 40m or more apart they would qualify as individual poi but if less than 20m they would only qualify as one. Now if you do not have signs if they are far apart #1, 2, 3 etc or A B C etc are fine if they are spread out.

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