What do you think about fake camera usage for OPR?

I don't know what to think about it. Never used it, what is your thoughts?

«1

Comments

  • PigletPiglet ✭✭

    Quoting Andrew Krug from his AMA: There are edge cases.

  • talormandatalormanda ✭✭
    edited June 2019

    I've not encountered any fake or malicious photos while doing OPR, nor have I seen any portals that are falsified either. There is a good and bad to every situation, but I've seen more good (reddit) come out of the use of it. Example would be someone going on vacation, photographing 50+ things, and submitting them later, filling up a community that has nothing because no one locally is able to submit. I will go on to say, with location being locked to 1-2 mile radius, this kills this ability for those who did do that.

  • AngroxAngrox ✭✭✭

    Yeah, there are edge cases. If a region has no players but some visitors/tourists how could the portals be submitted with a limitation of this few portals per two weeks.

    A solution would be to increase the submissions on the submission success rate and the opr rate.

  • msz21msz21 ✭✭✭

    If I remember correctly the main issue with photos in general is that Niantic is worried about copyright issues with said image. If someone is taking a photo they can realistically use a high quality image of the potential Point of Interest from online and then paste it into the submission.

    Now what I am presuming often happens is either two things. One, an individual saves a multitude of images to submit at a time that is more convenient for them. For example if you know the Point of Interest has some history behind it and you don't know the full details and you want to research it a bit more before you submit it and you only get to visit the POI (Point of Interest) once then you would want to submit it at a time that you are ready with the candidate. Two, now this one is a lot trickier but when you as a submitter don't have time or can't go to a location that you know has POI since you can cross reference or infer theres viable candidates via aerials or online images, in this case an individual near the POI sends you an image of said candidate with possible title/description/location information.

    The main two issues with at least the second case is that you a) don't know if they legitimately took the photo because Niantic does not want to deal with copyright images and b) integrity since a lot of folks don't think it's in good nature to submit candidates you have never visited and can't prove as a submitter that it exists.

  • MoogModularMoogModular ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've always been conflicted about it.

    When Seer started, you were able to share photos directly to Ingress as "Send to NIA Ops" and it would open the scanner to the submission screen with the picture added and the pin automatically pointed to the geocode location from the EXIF photo of the picture. (Notice how it has not done this its return in 2017 - you have to move the pin manually)

    I enjoy providing as much efficient information on what I found. I want to improve the network for all and not because of any gaming the system. However, there are times where I'm not able to provide an efficient means at the location because of signal, data, or whatever XM disturbance occurring. I can hope whatever I send is pending on the server but that presents more questions of hoping you can put submissions in limbo (think like creating a draft mission in the mission creator) before submitting them as a new feature in Prime.

    Anyways, I feel like the removal of sharing photos to the app removed functionality. I understand it was due to abuse but we now have OPR, 13 submissions as limitations, and actual functionality to flag agents in OPR.

  • HosetteHosette ✭✭✭✭✭

    From a pragmatic standpoint it seems that there is a question of intent. It doesn't seem problematic to take a photo of a potential portal, edit it for minor color and contrast improvements, fix the rotation because you're chronically incapable of holding a camera level, crop your thumb out, and then submit it while you're still standing in front of the portal candidate. It's still your photo, it's still an in-person submission... you're just correcting for your camera's weaknesses and your photographic incompetence.

  • PigletPiglet ✭✭

    @VanJeffery , I don't interpret it this way. The full question and answer were:

    Q: Hi Andrew, what is your position on portals added by fake camera, but using your own photos taken earlier?

    A: The current mechanic is intended to enable Portal submissions from the Scanner at a time when you are present at the location. We want you to submit what you know and can verify when you submit them. There are edge cases. There always are. But I can't advise you to use a third party tool to circumvent the in game mechanic.

  • @Piglet It was posted about more than once

  • PigletPiglet ✭✭

    I recall Andrew saying several time that you should not falsify your location.

    But I can't recall him explicitely stating that using fake camera was falsifying your location.

  • VanJefferyVanJeffery ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2019

    @Piglet Reread the answer already posted as well.

    "The current mechanic is intended to enable portal submissions from the scanner at a time *when you are present at the location.*"

    Post edited by VanJeffery on
  • Patka07Patka07 ✭✭✭✭

    @Piglet @VanJeffery maybe we should just ask him for precise answer? Is he in here too?

  • VanJefferyVanJeffery ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2019

    @Piglet

    From week 22 AMA:

    Q6: Justin Bennett - Did you ever get clarification on using apps like Fake Camera to submit portals remotely?

    A6: Don't fake your location. Just don't do it.

    I can't post the link to the curated document, but if you need it, send me a telegram message.

    @Patka07 Why pester him when he has already given an answer multiple times? I am not here to waste Krug's time.

  • ArtilectZedArtilectZed ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm the Justin Bennett referenced in that week 22 AMA. The "don't fake your location" bit is still aggravating and shows a complete misunderstanding of whats happening. There is no faking of location happening when submitting the portal via Fake Camera. It's also impossible to not use a third party app on Android, because any camera application is third party to the Ingress client.

    Whatever the case, the issue is resolved with Prime, as you can only move the suggested location a few KM away. It will be a complete non-issue when Redacted is retired.

  • jontebulajontebula ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very easy to see or understand in OPR. But agents in OPR like to not follow critera and now dont fall down to poor. Niantic must do something. To easy now to get fake accept. I always dont accept and follow criteria. I feel more portals dont follow criteria accept now when we have more new agents from Pokémon GO.

  • I'm the Justin Bennett referenced in that week 22 AMA. The "don't fake your location" bit is still aggravating and shows a complete misunderstanding of whats happening. There is no faking of location happening when submitting the portal via Fake Camera. It's also impossible to not use a third party app on Android, because any camera application is third party to the Ingress client.

    Whatever the case, the issue is resolved with Prime, as you can only move the suggested location a few KM away. It will be a complete non-issue when Redacted is retired.

    When you submit the portal using fake camera, are you in the location of the portal? If not, you are saying you are, when you are not. That is how I have always read that. It is not implying you are altering your GPS location data.

    Agree re: redacted.

  • ArtilectZedArtilectZed ✭✭✭✭✭

    I disagree, because "falsifying your location" in the game has serious ramifications, and can brand you as a spoofer. It's dangerous to sling that around, and to suggest anyone is doing it when they are not falsifying their GPS location, much more so when it's coming from someone who works for the company.

    The argument is also pointless, because using that logic, you must be standing directly on top of the portal, which is usually not possible. You have to "fake your location" just to move the submission spot from where you initiated the portal submission in the first place, in the Redacted scanner.

  • CriminalBizzyCriminalBizzy ✭✭✭✭

    It was possible with original scanner to submit images using third party apps but that has been resolved in Prime.

  • VanJefferyVanJeffery ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2019

    Do you think people have not received warnings or bans because of it? Or what is you basis for it being pointless?

    I am not going to quibble ridiculously about a small distance away. You are looking for an argument, and we are not 5 years old here. But if you are hundreds, or thousands? I can see them looking at that.

    At least twice in the AMA it says don't do it. Take it or leave it. Calling it pointless because you disagree with it, is, well, actually pointless.


    ETA the mention: @ArtilectZed

  • ArtilectZedArtilectZed ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know people have received bans because of it. I helped report someone for grabbing pictures off Google and using them to submit a portal that was invalid.

    When it's abused, it should be reported and the person dealt with. Not for falsifying their location, but for submitting invalid portals.

    My only issue has been the language of "faking your location". It's not faking anything. It's using the tools present in the redacted scanner as they were delivered to us. "Your location" stays exactly where you actually are, and there's a large icon denoting that on the satellite view map.

    Now, if you want to say things like "you're looking for an argument", yet continue to respond to me and try to refute the points I'm making, well... yeah. That makes a of sense, doesn't it?

  • grendelwulfgrendelwulf ✭✭✭✭✭

    Don't submit portals for places you aren't at and haven't photographed yourself. It not that hard to wrap your head around it.

  • grendelwulfgrendelwulf ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2019

    I can't delete a mistake?

  • I have encountered many portals that were submitted with fake camera and third party photos. This thing happens expecially with the top of the mountains or difficult to reach portals. Many of these portal were approved and I think it's unfair and they must be removed and resubmitted, because even though they are Legit as canditates the way they were requested was not.

    (every of these portal were submitted post OPR)

  • PigletPiglet ✭✭
    edited June 2019

    @VanJeffery please, please find the quote of him saying that using Fake Camera is cheating or us equivalent to faking your location.

    The only things I've seen were nonconcrete ”roundabout“ answers which sounded as if Andrew was afraid to directly condemn usage of Fake Camera for some reason (hurting Niantic business?).

  • shenefshenef ✭✭
    edited June 2019

    I hate being limited by a bad phone camera with only automatic exposure, a single focal length, no manual focus and simply a way too small sensor. Niantic is trying to build a monetizable poi platform, restricting people to low quality photos is really not a good idea in my opinion.

    My process of submitting a portal:

    1. Take a phone picture of the object to remind myself of object and location, that picture can also be used for the area picture in prime
    2. Come back with DSLR (i usually have it with me when in other towns)
    3. Edit the image (create hdr/panorama, retouching, crop, color correction,...), create title and description
    4. if i'm close enough, return to location and submit with prime, otherwise submit with redacted (of course using fake camera)

    i don't see why there would be any wrong with using fake camera as long as it's for a valid purpose

    To be honest, i haven't read much about how image copyright is handled by niantic but couldn't they just assume the image is not copyrighted and leave all responsibility at the player (which they have enough data about to trace it back to the person)? The players agreed to the terms of use after all.

  • @Piglet I posted it a bit further up. About 9 hours ago or so.


    (And FTR I'm just sharing what was shared on an AMA. I'm not saying do or don't. I'm just pointing out what's been said repeatedly. Ktnxbai)

Sign In or Register to comment.