Since level 10 in ingress + level 40 in pogo was a requested entry point, it would not be unreasonable to allow them first access. Plus, they are a handful of dedicated people to grind to level 10. That should be rewarded. Although I believe there will be pogo only players only included in the subset too.
As a PoGo player who takes sub suggestions from my community, I don't think any amount of requirements and testing will stop anyone. It's like saying anyone who passes a driving test will never speed because they know the rules. No matter how hard the test is, people will study, pass it, and then go straight to bad voting and TSR groupthinking. I think there's no way this doesn't end in calamity for the database. The subject constantly comes up on the Silph Road subreddit and EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. it's just people repeating the same thing about how more gyms and stops are always a good thing no matter what and OPR is far too strict.
How Niantic can possibly see what PoGo players say about getting control of OPR and opening the floodgates is beyond me.
Depends on the area. I'm in a PoGo discord with all the other reviewers in my area and I always review every one of their subs, and they review all of mine. There are other locations mixed in as well of course, but if you want to review local subs, doing a session of OPR lets us review them all pretty easily.
It's not so much an assumption as being active on The Silph Road and seeing people constantly rave about how they're gonna 5 star everything once PoGo gets Wayfarer access because Ingress players are "too strict" and "more stops and gyms are always a good thing".
What they fail realize is Naintic could easily handle this in-house with only rural priority submissions being reviewed. This is especially true in the US. They have legal obligations. Just follow their rules and you can maximize your fun but you might not get absolutely everything you want as a stop/gym.
That's a good idea, if it's a Pokemon Go player reviewing, or a new reviewer in general, make it so the waypoints they review are in a donut, not far away enough to be foreign, but not close enough to have a conflict of interest.
Then when they get to a high enough rating or a certain number of agreements, THEN they can review local submissions.
Most of the folks on my local Ingress Telegram OPR chat are constantly admitting they haven't reviewed for months because 60-80% of what is in their queue is not from our area. PoGo reviewers will be the same perhaps even more prone to dropping the reviewing process because it takes patience to make an impact on your local area.
I know that not all Pokemon Players are not Evil, Criteria Twisting , Selfish people. Most of the ones in my area undestand the Ingress (now Niantic) criteria.
BUT ! One of them is exactly like the submitter formally known as TimerCIock (TC). He started an Ingress account, and Leveled up to L10, then L12 (he didn't buy the account) He has submitted "Dog Poop Stations", moved the location of POI's by 20 -30 meters so that it was in a different S2 Cell. I would agree with the above TC. He even submitted a POI as a "Rest Area" -that actually is a Bathroom in a park. He has set out as a goal to get all of his friends to do the same, so they can have "A Stop or Gym wherever we want"
It has been my experience from OPR (and yes, I have over 20K reviews) is that while Ingress Agents before would occasionally suggest POT's that were not very Interesting (A statue of a dog in their back yard, etc). But rarely was a POI moved 20+ meters to enhance the map.
I again emphisise that not all Pokemon players are Troglodytes. But a distinct few give them all a bad impression to us long term Ingress Agents.
(Gets off my soapbox, and drags it back to the closet)
As a the leader of my Local Pokemon Go Group 800+ Members total.
Most of them would not submit with the intent to be malicious, however, they would also not see the harm in submitting benches, picnic tables, trash cans etc. While their intent is good, their actions could be harmful to the overall product. I truely believe only roughly 5% of PoGO users would be capable of submitting fully within guidelines. I also don't believe its their fault. PoGO is much more reliant on Pokestops/Gyms than Ingress on number of portals. Adding a Pokestop fuels more items and spawns, currently after the work I have personally done in my area (adding 190 portals) my area is not hurting for Pokestops to get more items. However, my area is still lacking Pokemon Spawn Points. Adding more stops would remedy that to a degree. Adding more Pokestops also helps create more Gyms, Gyms help get more raid bosses which is the primary end game content for Pokemon Go. So essentially adding more Pokestops in PoGo is ALWAYS good.
The incentive to add generally outweighs any downside or negative to submit literal garbage.
Do I believe Pokemon Go players should get the ability to Submit? Absolutely
Do I believe Pokemon Go players should be able to Review? Absolutely
Do I believe Niantic has found a way to make this happen that is both reasonable and beneficial to all parties? No, they haven't.
I will standby everything I have said in the past, the requirements need to be strict. The test much longer and harder (Ingress to retest). Requirements should match the density of the area, this makes it so areas that are lacking get a easier chance to boost their area.
To reiterate I don't believe most PoGo players have bad intent, however, the game is flawed to have them desire to request more POI than should be needed. Niantic needs to fix fundamental aspects of the game. This past community day proved that. For those unaware each month their is a "community day" for Pokemon Go, a pokemon is given a special day where they spawn in high numbers around the world with a special move and a special color variant called a "shiny". This past one they tried to focus on parks, however do to recent events that reduced spawn points for most communities a lot of areas suffered from a drought of spawns. I personally only saw about 60% of what I would normally see. If they truly want the communities to act in good faith they need to make areas of the game more playable with limited "Pokestops" to ensure people will only request truly what is needed and not an absurd amount.
Thank you for your comment! It brings a much needed perspective on the issue.
Also, for full disclosure - I was a Beta Tester for Pokemon . Once it came out for general play, I stopped playing I was at L14 . (apparently, I've walked over 130 KM since then).
I'm in a PoGo group of over 1600+ people and they come to me for submission ideas because I enjoy finding new things and making all the games playable without having to drive constantly. I tell people the rules often and no matter what I still get people wanting to submit statues on their lawn, their backyard pool, teachers who want a stop at school, to fake the location of a mural, etc. And we are not a low density town, we may have low density areas but well over 1000 portals in our town. They're greedy and as much as I try to explain that flooding the system with trash will mean we get nothing new when the backlog grows, they really don't care. I want lots of portals and stops too and the ingress players in the community are trying to help prepare everyone but I don't think Niantic has prepared for this at all and ultimately it's on them.
I agree the removal criteria need modified, but I don't think retribution is the answer. Even before OPR, back when Niantic had all the say, the portal criteria were different. Fountains for instance used to be perfectly acceptable and went through the system in droves. When OPR released, fountains found themselves (rightfully) on the wrong side of the mark. By your argument, every person who submitted a fountain that got approved would now get strikes against them.
I think a minimum approval rating- say 65-70% (or better, I'd have to see overall stats)- of your submissions getting approved should continue your access to Wayfarer submissions, reevaluated after every 10th approval. If you're lower than that, you don't get as many new available submissions when they renew. You could also use the same system to increase submission numbers for good submitters: say 95%+ over a period nets you an extra 5 submissions.
In theory, or at least in my head, this would give players with solid submissions more opportunities to submit good candidates and reduce the numbers of bad actors who are trying to game the system.
Potential problems: 1) Ingress players that use the same email for PoGO or HPWU as Wayfarer seems to only be for the email account. Would bad PoGO submissions hurt your Ingress numbers? Do they combine, or are they separate? 2) Limited opportunity to regain submission ability
So - same test. OK. We should still be discussing it but here's what I think will happen:
The general population who have never submitted before, will submit "whatever", and we can expect a deluge of new stuff to review. The backlog will increase immedeately, and many will write it off as "not working" even before they get the reply (among other rude wakenings as to how easy this would be).The rectections will further demotiveate sumbitters. Still, going forward, we can expect an increase in (poor) submissions. We, as reviewers, will get more work.
The general population who have newer reviewed before will last a day, maybe two (!!) The misconceptions have been discussed before, I'll just summarize "it's boring , free work looking at medium-to -shitty portals from across the country"- Going forward, only a handful of people will continue to review. So, little help for os that already review.
Now what of these "vandals", they who purposely create havoc "for gameplay reasons" (or pure malice!), why do I not think we should worry about them? Becuase they have already made Ingress account(s) and are already active. Yes, they have now extra submissions but we are used to dealing with these already.
TL:DR: Much more submissions, few new reviewers, carry on
Most are going to just submit even if they can get theirs fast-tracked by reviewing. The sheer volume will most likely keep anyone with many many accounts from manipulating by manually reviewing.. It mostly bots that could wreck havoc.
That's an extremely good point. The gold badges make botting to OPR not feasible in Ingress without getting caught, but in PoGo if the req is L40, people can just make massive bot farms that go to L40, then just 5 star every review till they get Poor status, then rinse and repeat.
Comments
Since level 10 in ingress + level 40 in pogo was a requested entry point, it would not be unreasonable to allow them first access. Plus, they are a handful of dedicated people to grind to level 10. That should be rewarded. Although I believe there will be pogo only players only included in the subset too.
I think it escaped beta when it became public around the end of September 2017. At the time, Niantic called this "Phase Two"
As a PoGo player who takes sub suggestions from my community, I don't think any amount of requirements and testing will stop anyone. It's like saying anyone who passes a driving test will never speed because they know the rules. No matter how hard the test is, people will study, pass it, and then go straight to bad voting and TSR groupthinking. I think there's no way this doesn't end in calamity for the database. The subject constantly comes up on the Silph Road subreddit and EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. it's just people repeating the same thing about how more gyms and stops are always a good thing no matter what and OPR is far too strict.
How Niantic can possibly see what PoGo players say about getting control of OPR and opening the floodgates is beyond me.
Depends on the area. I'm in a PoGo discord with all the other reviewers in my area and I always review every one of their subs, and they review all of mine. There are other locations mixed in as well of course, but if you want to review local subs, doing a session of OPR lets us review them all pretty easily.
It's not so much an assumption as being active on The Silph Road and seeing people constantly rave about how they're gonna 5 star everything once PoGo gets Wayfarer access because Ingress players are "too strict" and "more stops and gyms are always a good thing".
TSR would have guides on gaming Adventure Sync distance within an hour if that was the requirement.
What they fail realize is Naintic could easily handle this in-house with only rural priority submissions being reviewed. This is especially true in the US. They have legal obligations. Just follow their rules and you can maximize your fun but you might not get absolutely everything you want as a stop/gym.
That's a good idea, if it's a Pokemon Go player reviewing, or a new reviewer in general, make it so the waypoints they review are in a donut, not far away enough to be foreign, but not close enough to have a conflict of interest.
Then when they get to a high enough rating or a certain number of agreements, THEN they can review local submissions.
I only know a couple others beside me who are over 10,000km. I would never suggest that for real lol.
I have had my bonus locations set to the Dominican Republic and Colombia and there is a great need for reviewers in these locales.
Most of the folks on my local Ingress Telegram OPR chat are constantly admitting they haven't reviewed for months because 60-80% of what is in their queue is not from our area. PoGo reviewers will be the same perhaps even more prone to dropping the reviewing process because it takes patience to make an impact on your local area.
I seem to remember the OPR website carrying the BETA tag up until the day it was retired.
From my point of view -
I know that not all Pokemon Players are not Evil, Criteria Twisting , Selfish people. Most of the ones in my area undestand the Ingress (now Niantic) criteria.
BUT ! One of them is exactly like the submitter formally known as TimerCIock (TC). He started an Ingress account, and Leveled up to L10, then L12 (he didn't buy the account) He has submitted "Dog Poop Stations", moved the location of POI's by 20 -30 meters so that it was in a different S2 Cell. I would agree with the above TC. He even submitted a POI as a "Rest Area" -that actually is a Bathroom in a park. He has set out as a goal to get all of his friends to do the same, so they can have "A Stop or Gym wherever we want"
It has been my experience from OPR (and yes, I have over 20K reviews) is that while Ingress Agents before would occasionally suggest POT's that were not very Interesting (A statue of a dog in their back yard, etc). But rarely was a POI moved 20+ meters to enhance the map.
I again emphisise that not all Pokemon players are Troglodytes. But a distinct few give them all a bad impression to us long term Ingress Agents.
(Gets off my soapbox, and drags it back to the closet)
As a the leader of my Local Pokemon Go Group 800+ Members total.
Most of them would not submit with the intent to be malicious, however, they would also not see the harm in submitting benches, picnic tables, trash cans etc. While their intent is good, their actions could be harmful to the overall product. I truely believe only roughly 5% of PoGO users would be capable of submitting fully within guidelines. I also don't believe its their fault. PoGO is much more reliant on Pokestops/Gyms than Ingress on number of portals. Adding a Pokestop fuels more items and spawns, currently after the work I have personally done in my area (adding 190 portals) my area is not hurting for Pokestops to get more items. However, my area is still lacking Pokemon Spawn Points. Adding more stops would remedy that to a degree. Adding more Pokestops also helps create more Gyms, Gyms help get more raid bosses which is the primary end game content for Pokemon Go. So essentially adding more Pokestops in PoGo is ALWAYS good.
The incentive to add generally outweighs any downside or negative to submit literal garbage.
Do I believe Pokemon Go players should get the ability to Submit? Absolutely
Do I believe Pokemon Go players should be able to Review? Absolutely
Do I believe Niantic has found a way to make this happen that is both reasonable and beneficial to all parties? No, they haven't.
I will standby everything I have said in the past, the requirements need to be strict. The test much longer and harder (Ingress to retest). Requirements should match the density of the area, this makes it so areas that are lacking get a easier chance to boost their area.
To reiterate I don't believe most PoGo players have bad intent, however, the game is flawed to have them desire to request more POI than should be needed. Niantic needs to fix fundamental aspects of the game. This past community day proved that. For those unaware each month their is a "community day" for Pokemon Go, a pokemon is given a special day where they spawn in high numbers around the world with a special move and a special color variant called a "shiny". This past one they tried to focus on parks, however do to recent events that reduced spawn points for most communities a lot of areas suffered from a drought of spawns. I personally only saw about 60% of what I would normally see. If they truly want the communities to act in good faith they need to make areas of the game more playable with limited "Pokestops" to ensure people will only request truly what is needed and not an absurd amount.
AgentB0ss
Thank you for your comment! It brings a much needed perspective on the issue.
Also, for full disclosure - I was a Beta Tester for Pokemon . Once it came out for general play, I stopped playing I was at L14 . (apparently, I've walked over 130 KM since then).
I'm in a PoGo group of over 1600+ people and they come to me for submission ideas because I enjoy finding new things and making all the games playable without having to drive constantly. I tell people the rules often and no matter what I still get people wanting to submit statues on their lawn, their backyard pool, teachers who want a stop at school, to fake the location of a mural, etc. And we are not a low density town, we may have low density areas but well over 1000 portals in our town. They're greedy and as much as I try to explain that flooding the system with trash will mean we get nothing new when the backlog grows, they really don't care. I want lots of portals and stops too and the ingress players in the community are trying to help prepare everyone but I don't think Niantic has prepared for this at all and ultimately it's on them.
This could easily be solved with spot checks and honey traps. 3 strikes for those who approve coal.
This was posted on Silph Road
I agree the removal criteria need modified, but I don't think retribution is the answer. Even before OPR, back when Niantic had all the say, the portal criteria were different. Fountains for instance used to be perfectly acceptable and went through the system in droves. When OPR released, fountains found themselves (rightfully) on the wrong side of the mark. By your argument, every person who submitted a fountain that got approved would now get strikes against them.
I think a minimum approval rating- say 65-70% (or better, I'd have to see overall stats)- of your submissions getting approved should continue your access to Wayfarer submissions, reevaluated after every 10th approval. If you're lower than that, you don't get as many new available submissions when they renew. You could also use the same system to increase submission numbers for good submitters: say 95%+ over a period nets you an extra 5 submissions.
In theory, or at least in my head, this would give players with solid submissions more opportunities to submit good candidates and reduce the numbers of bad actors who are trying to game the system.
Potential problems: 1) Ingress players that use the same email for PoGO or HPWU as Wayfarer seems to only be for the email account. Would bad PoGO submissions hurt your Ingress numbers? Do they combine, or are they separate? 2) Limited opportunity to regain submission ability
Thoughts?
I know I've already been seeing that for months.
It appears that PoGo Wayfarer reviewing has opened up for some users in Mexico tonight. It appears the test is the exact same and no changes.
So - same test. OK. We should still be discussing it but here's what I think will happen:
The general population who have never submitted before, will submit "whatever", and we can expect a deluge of new stuff to review. The backlog will increase immedeately, and many will write it off as "not working" even before they get the reply (among other rude wakenings as to how easy this would be).The rectections will further demotiveate sumbitters. Still, going forward, we can expect an increase in (poor) submissions. We, as reviewers, will get more work.
The general population who have newer reviewed before will last a day, maybe two (!!) The misconceptions have been discussed before, I'll just summarize "it's boring , free work looking at medium-to -shitty portals from across the country"- Going forward, only a handful of people will continue to review. So, little help for os that already review.
Now what of these "vandals", they who purposely create havoc "for gameplay reasons" (or pure malice!), why do I not think we should worry about them? Becuase they have already made Ingress account(s) and are already active. Yes, they have now extra submissions but we are used to dealing with these already.
TL:DR: Much more submissions, few new reviewers, carry on
Most are going to just submit even if they can get theirs fast-tracked by reviewing. The sheer volume will most likely keep anyone with many many accounts from manipulating by manually reviewing.. It mostly bots that could wreck havoc.
That's an extremely good point. The gold badges make botting to OPR not feasible in Ingress without getting caught, but in PoGo if the req is L40, people can just make massive bot farms that go to L40, then just 5 star every review till they get Poor status, then rinse and repeat.
Live in Germany
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/djo6b8/wayfarer_available_in_germany/
Just came to I say that that! Stealing my thunder 😂😂😂
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Fountains are out? I thought fountains were high quality but water spouts in the middle of lakes and ponds were out.
Dont give them ideas lol
Korea has Wayfarer now