Why was that rejected?

It is an informationboard from our volunteer firedepartment, far away for the firestation in a pedestrian zone.

They are also organized as a club, invite people to participate, they launch events like the "Hoffest der Freiwilligen Feuerwehr" and make shows of there equipment at our lake in town. The information from this board are important to our city.

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5PKoXohGubAXLKVipyyd9LOPQmz7o4DEYBUkZ_si4E1yoSH7wfuqlGkGIzuNpYdH3VcvpYl2JvsqoZSNhCA-OWC7qeo

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Comments

  • AgentB0ssAgentB0ss ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would just try again, and explain as much of that as you can in the Submission Statement. It can be tough and people will likely mark it as a "emergency service".

  • Thanks for the hint. I wrote this at submission, but unfortunately it did not help.

    The portal would be important to the city, because in the pedestrian area many people can be reached.

    It is far from the fire department. It just serves to support the fire brigade and to advertise their events.

    This rejection really disappointed me.

  • TheismanTheisman ✭✭✭✭✭

    To be honest, if i got that despite it being a viable candidate I may well consider 1* it as the picture isnt the best as the bottom third of it is bicycle. If there are other nearby portals then id reject as poor picture, if not id be more lenient.

    According to the email you've not been rejected for emergency access, so being a fire station isn't your problem (unless the people rejecting it have chosen the wrong reason).

    I'd re submit it, quote the AMA which said notice boards should be classed as LFL's, and get a better picture without the bike in it.

  • edited October 2019

    It looks like just a ratty noticeboard which isn't really a portal. Also the bike in front isn't helping.

  • 0X00FF000X00FF00 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Community notice boards ARE considered to be “gathering places” as per NIA OPS, please see the AMAs posted by @RedSoloCup

    And “poor quality” is not intended to refer to “subjectively ugly”. If the object is in clear view and in focus, heck even if there are other incidental people or objects (even cars) in the picture, it need not be a gloriously beautiful thing.

    I do feel your pain, one trail marker had been slathered in graffiti. It met EVERY relevant criteria for similar trail markers but was refused some five times before finally being accepted. Except that it was “subjectively” ugly.

  •  please see the AMAs posted by @RedSoloCup

    The ones on G+? I'm sure there's an interpretation of a vague statement that turns every single piece of cork on a wall into a "community gathering place".

  • KliffingtonKliffington ✭✭✭✭✭

    : Nick Schollar - In the UK we have "Community Notice Boards" in residential areas, often maintained by the parish or district council or the residents' association. I think these make good portals but that's a heavily debated topic on the OPR chat and about half the notice boards I submit get approved. Does NIA think these are eligible to become portals?


    A: They do hold the function of being community gathering places. But like many things, it is likely to be very situational. They should follow the same guidelines as the Little Free Libraries.

  • Yes. So your example is a rejection, because people don't gather there. Someone literally parked their bike in front of it. This isn't a significant community noticeboard, its the barely maintained one on a random wall.

    This is not a point of interest. If it was, it would be better maintained, have more information in it, and wouldn't have fading notices from how many years ago.

    This is yet another example of "We want a portal here, what can we try and rules lawyer into the game."

  • KliffingtonKliffington ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was just posting the relevant AMA since you can't be bothered. But where do you see faded notices? What about this notice board is poorly maintained? You're just looking for things to reject.

  • We can't be looking at the same photo. I see chips in the wood, the big red leaflet is faded, the corkboard shows lots of wear and tear.

    Desperate for extra stops isn't a reason for a portal. It's not a community gathering place.

  • KliffingtonKliffington ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm sorry are you saying that this is not a community gathering place because the corkboard SHOWS SIGNS OF USE? That's ridiculous. It wood and outside it's not going to be pristine that does not mean it's not used. I see crisp looking photographs, seems like it's being used to me.


  • No, I'm saying this is not a community gathering place, because it shows since of poor maintenance and long unchanged leaflets.

    The red one was clearly dark red originally, because the lettering is pale enough that it's almost indiscernable against a pale red background, and there's inconsistent fading at the edges which is what happens when you leave a printed leaflet in the sun **for years**. You claim crisp photos, because that's what you want us to see.

    Good rejection, OPR is doing it's job properly.

  • KliffingtonKliffington ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2019

    I see a pinkish looking leaflet where the letters have not been faded at all including the black outlines which makes me think the coloring was intentional?

    I don't even live in the same country as the OP but you're Keen on demonstrating your lack of observation skills so I'm not surprised you've confused us.

  • Just because you aren't directly the one getting this portal doesn't mean you're not rules lawyering for all such boards to be accepted. Do you also think pieces of wood on 4 posts constitutes a "gazebo" too?

  • KliffingtonKliffington ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nope I can tell the difference between structures unlike you.

  • Good, at least you're not failing on both counts. But you are interpreting the statement that noticeboards can be community gathering places, as they are. NIA Ops is vague because the situation differs from place to place. This clearly is not a well maintained community gathering place. It's a random board stuck (I assume) to the side of the firehouse. People don't gather here. It's obvious from the state of the board.

  • KliffingtonKliffington ✭✭✭✭✭

    The board is not empty it is in use by the community the minor wear and tear on an outdoor structure doesn't eliminate it from being a gathering place. Just because the fire station doesn't replace a functional board because it had a few dings doesn't mean it isn't maintained. That's an insane way to go about reviewing.

  • The board is in use by the fire department as an advertising flyer case.

    This is the problem with many OPR reviewers. The default is not "It is a portal prove me wrong". You have to prove its a gathering spot first, not demand that someone prove it's not afterwards.

    And there's been no evidence that anyone ever gathers here. There's dissuading evidence by the fact that someone thought it so insignificant, they chained their bike up in front of it. That doesn't speak to something people come together and talk around.

  • I'd say it meets point to of the definition (via Google).


  • edited October 2019

    Prove that people actually gather there. Don't use Google to provide the definition of the word. A board no-one reads, and simply ignores, is not a community gathering place.

  • 'They do hold the function of being community gathering places.'

    'bring together, and take in from scattered places or sources'


    Random leaflets, from varying sources, gathered together to be held, displayed and viewable by anyone passing who may wish to stop and look at its contents.

    You may not like them, that's you're right.

    Nia have been explicit in saying *They do* hold the function of a community gathering place.

    Literally, they are designed to gather / to hold and display gathered, sources of community information.

    If the ops post was a corporate board within a corporate location restricted to corporate contributions, yeah I'd reject, but the ops isn't, it is a community board with community information.

  • Random leaflets, from varying sources, gathered together to be held, displayed and viewable by anyone passing who may wish to stop and look at its contents.

    Community gathering place is not referring to gathering leaflets together. 🤦‍♂️

    If no-one reads a years old flyer about a fire engine, it's not gathering anyone. Pieces of paper are not the community.

    You may not like it, but it's not a portal.

  • 0X00FF000X00FF00 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your current option is to wait for the upcoming October AMA, ask your question in such a way as to not seem like a duplicate/rehash of old questions, and wait. Arguing at us isn't going to change the old AMA.

  • edited October 2019

    Then why do people keep arguing with me? Since the portal was rejected, my opinion is the status quo. I don't need to ask a question, the interpretation is correct AND supported by the OPR review.

  • 0X00FF000X00FF00 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Because your opinion has been refuted. The AMA in question is @RedSoloCup bringing us information directly from the Game Masters themselves, NIA OPS. You're arguing at us, not against NIA OPS' directives.

    Take up your argument with them, and come back to us when you have new information. We will abide by newer information in newer AMAs, or other newly posted guidelines (ie. support pages, opr help/faq/etc).

  • Because your opinion has been refuted. 

    No, it hasn't. No-one has shown any evidence except for their own self-congratulatory opinion, that this is a community gathering space. Since it's not, then the interpretation of the AMA answer is correct. This is not a gathering place, therefore it is not a portal. I agree with NIA Ops statement.

    Again, you have to prove a positive, that "This is a community gathering place". Clearly the OPR reviewers were not shown that in evidence, because the portal was rejected. When NIA Ops issues a statement "All non-commercial noticeboards are portals" without the situation qualification of being a community gathering place, then you can be right.

    Until then, I agree with NIA Ops and the OPR reviewers. Since this is not a community gathering place and is simply a glass case on the wall of a firehouse, it is not a Point of Interest.

    You want to disagree, fine. Prove this is a gathering place, instead of breaking your shoulder trying to pat yourself on the back.

  • 0X00FF000X00FF00 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2019

    My "self-congratulatory opinion" is that the AMA says that community post boards are valid portals. Yours is ignoring that instruction from NIA OPS.

    NIA OPS says, notice board = gathering place = valid submission.

    You're saying, @RedSoloCup is a liar, liar, pants are smoking hot at best, on fire at worst. (I paraphrase for dramatic effect.)

  • My "self-congratulatory opinion" is that the AMA says that community post boards are valid portals. 

    And that is where you are wrong.

    But like many things, it is likely to be very situational.

    You're ignoring this line.

  • 0X00FF000X00FF00 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Every POI review is situational.

    I've got a lovely plaque, in the middle of a maintained garden. I can't submit it, because it's on a traffic median.

    I've got a mural that is taking multiple attempts to submit, because the (I say this with as much politeness as is possible) moronic OPR reviewers say it's a generic business.

    I've got a transit hub, it's smaller than Grand Central Station, so it's also failing.

    I've got a public notice board that I have yet to submit, because the shop owners clear it monthly, and I've yet to be able to take a picture of it with something besides the shop's own posters.

    I've got a trail marker that took repeated submissions, because it was graffiti'd to all heck and back, and its only rejection reason was at best "iz ugly. cant haz".

    I've got a conference hall that's big enough to host a psychic fair, too small to host comic con, bigger than banquet halls (and is indeed an available venue for weddings). Yet banquet halls are being accepted, larger halls are being accepted, and this middle-sized one's only difference is scale.

    So yes, "situational" matters, every time.


    Your comment above amounted to "iz ugly. cant haz. incidental bikez bad, still cant haz". Followed by comments amounting to "I don't agree with NIA OPS's instructions, so still cant haz".

    Eventually you brought up a potentially-valid point, that the response from @RedSoloCup didn't differentiate between notice boards where anybody can put up their own posters, and those where some authority is the only one able to post notices for all of the public to access.

    In both cases, the "community gathering" is only ever done, at best, one person at a time. Yet this does not invalidate the POI's candidacy.

    If you bring up this topic again in the AMAs for any clarification, you'll get one of two possibilities:

    1. A new clarification! which we will abide by in the future
    2. No response, which amounts to "asked and answered", ie. a public notice board is a public notice board is a public notice board, in which case we have a status quo.

    I wait with bated breath, to read October's AMAs.

  • Everything is situational - it's a caveat, that no statement should be treated as a catch all.

    This one sub may have been rejected, but many also get accepted.

    The submitter obviously believes it meets guidance, hence submitted, then came here to ask for opinions.

    The onus is not on the reviewer to be prove it is or is not a gathering place, the onus is on the reviewer to abide by the guidance.

    Other than your dislike for these types of submissions, what else makes you believe this particular location is not a gathering place?

    What is your definition of a gathering place?

    What is your definition of community?


    Community does not have to be solely restricted to many people at any one given time.

    A location doesn't have to have many people gather at the same time to be a gathering place. Many people could gather to read those notices, at varying times of the day, literally pausing as passing to glance and perhaps read what's in / on the board.


    As others have stated, as Nia have stated, they meet criteria, but as with everything, there may also be overriding reasons to reject (say, unsafe, blocking ES etc etc)

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