Idea for Onboarding PoGo reviewers

PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭

Assuming there is ever a decision to start using PoGo reviewers, this is an idea on how to ensure that the reviewers have better quality than what most of us expect.

  1. The entry test is made more rigorous for both Ingress and PoGo.
  2. The rules are rewritten in total, incorporating all the rulings and changes, so that there's one definitive list, with clarifications and FAQ.
  3. PoGo players start reviewing portals. However, their reviews don't count towards approving or rejecting a portal.
  4. When a given player's reviews match the result 75% or more over a period of 200 reviews, their reviews silently start to count.

That way if they're failing, they won't matter, but once they hit the threshold, they won't know it so they'll keep reviewing as best they can.

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Comments

  • AgentB0ssAgentB0ss ✭✭✭✭✭

    Below are snipits from posts I made yesterday on Reddit related to this topic. I also agree with everything you've mentioned above and have suggested similar each time this topic comes up.


    I'm not entirely opposed to Pokemon Go players in OPR, I just believe availability should be limited. I think it should be tough, I also believe every Ingress reviewer should be accountable to take the same more difficult test to gain access.

    I believe they should do a Geofence by region for who can do OPR, example say area is capped to 50 reviewers, no one else can join to review/take the test. However, if those 50 players are not reviewing enough they lose access and have to rejoin the available grouping when its available again.

    Harder test, limited number from each game, while also supporting a system that needs balance and needs more reviewers.

    I also believe if they do release submissions worldwide and an OPR system, it should also be based on Geofence locations of their Portal Density. I think level 6 cells would be ideal and the system would look at the total number of Pokestops within the Level 6 cell and adjust the requirements to submit in that cell. Low Density, level 40, mid density maybe 35 million, high density 50 million something like that.

    Also for pogo submitters show them nearby portals too to help prevent duplicates. Or better idea remove S2 Level 17 requirement for stops, and make it so all portals in Ingress are in Pokemon Go.

    Lets use an example, lets say a Portal/Pokestop takes 30 reviews to be completed. Limiting a region to 50 from PoGo/50 from Ingress would mean you would have slightly more people than 3 times the amount needed to review. If reviewers are inactive they get replaced.

    This would help prevent bias/overload/tampering. This would also allow the need for Bonus/Home locations to be removed since local reviewers would always be enough.

    The system could also be updated to automatically include areas that do not have enough reviewers in a worldwide queue.

  • AgentB0ssAgentB0ss ✭✭✭✭✭

    My biggest concern is opening flood gates causing system crashes. I also am concerned with there being 1000-fold PoGo reviewers. The current system of OPR would provide zero incentive to reject a bad portal. Ive said it before Pokemon Go Players have an incentive to get more Pokestops every Pokestop/Gym helps the community. So its almost like saying hey let me give you $1 for every time you approve a portal, but I won't give you anything for rejecting. Well, most people will just approve everything, and when the majority holds the power to do that then it works.


    I am also primarily a PoGO Player.

  • PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 1


    I honestly don't think that there'll be issues with OPR crashing on scale. Especially if there are limits like L40 + test etc to start with. Ingress players do about 150k reviews a day on average, but some of the earliest days after it was open to everyone had 1-2 million reviews in a day. There's capacity to expand, and I'm sure that the system was designed to be scalable.

    As for rejections, that's why I'm suggesting using Ingress Agents as the "guideline". If someone strays too far from the norm in OPR right now, they lose reviewing quality. Do the same for PoGo players but don't let them count until they've already proven that they can meet the norm first.

    You could even continue to maintain independent metrics, and compare whether a region's PoGo players are driving the results away from the Ingress players.

  • AgentB0ssAgentB0ss ✭✭✭✭✭

    You are right about scale, I wasn’t aware of the original numbers thank you for the insight.

    I still have concerns, if the majority ends up being PoGo players and everyone votes to approve the system wouldn’t have negative metrics to hurt their score. That’s why I was thinking of limiting the numbers of available reviewers in such a way it could maintain a balance but still overall benefit the system vastly. I also think a global back log could assist low review areas.


    as for your third point would love to see them tackle that not sure how they could without injecting their own reviewers, which I personally think is needed. Still majority player based but have Niantic reviewers audit say 5-10%

  • LemoMcLemonFaceLemoMcLemonFace ✭✭✭✭

    Point 3 I recently suggested in a TC thread, I think.

    I personally think it's the only way it can work without destroying the poi dB - and even then, it still could.

    I didn't suggest the silent aspect of it, I do like that though.

  • PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭


    The original proposal we made to Niantic for OPR said that people shouldn't find out if they've been downgraded to bad ratings, or if they did, only warn them, don't make it any sort of visible rating. That way the same logic would have applied. People wouldn't know they're being ignored except for maybe an email telling them to improve.

    Then we got a badge and Great/Good/Poor ratings.

  • LemoMcLemonFaceLemoMcLemonFace ✭✭✭✭

    I don't recall seeing the original suggestions, but I wasn't all that active on g+ etc.

    Perfectly fine suggestions imo.

  • TropicalJetTropicalJet ✭✭✭
    edited October 1

    I like the idea of the review not affecting OPR until certain percentage of agreements are met.

    Other stuff I would like are restricting review only from area they are not playing at (to minimize bias) and monthly tests for all reviewers, including ingress reviewers where those who failed will be unable to access OPR for a month (or less).

  • GearGliderGearGlider ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2

    PoGo players could be onboarded with an invite to OPR or application to Niantic to become a reviewer.


    There's already a lottery/invitation system in place for PoGo events, could use a similar thing for reviewers. Just meet a certain in game criteria and then apply to be invited.


    Or have Ingress Players at a certain level/distinction have a limited number of PoGo invites they can send out, That way there's a local judge who would only invite player that won't abuse the system. Maybe someone like a vangaurd.

  • harkonnnenharkonnnen ✭✭✭

    What about this for a possible idea

    If they opened up OPR to pogo, each nomination needed to be reviewed by x amount of trainers (say 50).

    Nominations that are rated poor get rejected, that should clear out a fair number

    The high rated ones then get put in the Ingress OPR rating piles. With a reduced number of Agents needing to rate them then is currently required (May be half or a third). Basically the agents are spot checking before the successful ones are approved.

    As time goes on and trainers that have rated x amount of nominations and have x amount of agreements (high percentage), then they can be promoted as needed to increase OPR speed.

  • kholman1kholman1 ✭✭✭✭

    This would be why I dedicated the last year submitting the hot spots getting everything out of the way so at least areas have points of interest before the system comes crashing down. If we think Germany is an issue imagine the U.S. getting submissions in the current form it would grind to a halt and the only areas even getting approvals would be urban centers that have people go into overdrive to vote to clear the drains and rural areas that happened to get voted on in the process. My biggest issue with people saying lets mentor pogo players what about those that already started OPR and are doing it the honest way and going by the book are people just going to ignore the fact the people most likely to do the voting for pogo joined ingress already. I can say this there are groups that have pogo ingress chats discussing submissions like there are ingress backrooms I have seen mostly good but some bad submissions coming from the chats but overall the voting is keeping in check the invalid objects. I personally have talked to certain people that have hit 10 and giving them constructive feedback on what I have personally gotten approved and what does not get approved and they are working on going to 12 at minimum to help clear backlog.

  • AgentB0ssAgentB0ss ✭✭✭✭✭

    If nothing changes to OPR and Submissions hit the US it will be a disaster. I live in an area that already has 6 Month + approval time, currently there are only really 3-5 people submitting across the entire S2 Level 6. Now my 2 towns I frequent take up a fairly small piece of the S2 Level 6, and we alone have 100+ Level 40 PoGo Players... If they all began to submit it would be be impossible for anything to be approved.

  • More people the faster the returns. Simple Statistics.

  • AgentB0ssAgentB0ss ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2

    We all know why you want the system wide open, you want approvals for schools, electrical towers, drinking fountains, dog waste stations, picnic tables, grills, and so much more....


    With my suggested system everyones portals would take under 2 weeks to be approved which is great timing.


    So if you want to actually be constructive submit thoughts that might benefit the system instead of just saying "simple statistics".

  • TimerCIockTimerCIock ✭✭
    edited October 2

    Well you tell me what else I can get since my entire city is going to be destroyed depending on the outcome of what niantic is going to do with the old portals that are 40m from PRP? Yes parks can still be used, even if they have limited hours it is better than nothing. The heart of parks can be great locations and far enough away from PRP that it is no issues... Yet you all think it is a bad idea.... It will at least help all of the world having something moving forward...


    If you say the Database is too important, the database is already corrupted with all of the PRP submissions you guys approved already. Example the Little Libraries someone came up with that you all abused. Ingress players created PRP portals. Not pokemon players. They have been around longer than pokemon was around for some of the PRP portals. Schools with dual use agreements should be allowed when the school is designed to have recreation activities at it already.

  • AgentB0ssAgentB0ss ✭✭✭✭✭

    You clearly don't know how to read, PRP is only being removed if requested by property owners, and even then they can vary in request. Not all requests will be for 40M, yes some will but the property owner has to initiate. So there is alot less of a chance of losing portals than you think.

    NO one and I mean no one is against more portals in parks, as long as they are legitimate. You believe because people dont want, drinking fountains, grills, picnic tables, dog poop stations, that they dont want parks, no its not that at all. I even have mentioned to you before I have made a park in my area go from 5 POI to 27-30 POI depending on the game.


    Stop on this rant about PRP, we've all already explained it to you too many times and you refuse to listen.

  • AgentB0ssAgentB0ss ✭✭✭✭✭

    Techincally 5 parks, however 3 of the 5 are so small they only have a sign and a playground.

    1 is slightly larger with a playground, some disc golf, and a basketball court.

    the last one is rather "large" with 3 baseball fields, 3 soccer fields, a skate park, a community center, a .77 mile trail, another trail along the water, 2 playgrounds, 3 swingsets, multiple picnic shelters, a dog park, a pollinator garden, memorial trees, memorial flag/rock, and other stuff as well.

  • 5 parks. Okay just in dundalk, which is a small area, it has over 20 different neighborhood parks in a 10 mile radius. If you looked just at Maryland state parks, that is 75. If you looked just at Baltimore County and City that is over 200 neighborhood parks.... The county/city doesn't have the funding to do anything new like you are suggesting.... So again.... keep assuming everyone can have nice parks like you guys think.....

  • AgentB0ssAgentB0ss ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just checked and actually my one "larger" park and single park in my area with more than 3 Portals is 30 Acres, your Merritt Point Park for example is 36 acres. So yes I have 1 nice park in my small town, but as you mentioned there are 20 different neighborehood parks in your area... hmmm

  • State of maryland on the 75 state parks is 141k in acres... That doesn't include the local neighborhood parks. Huge difference for budget though. Your few parks you are allowed to build more pretty things....

  • AgentB0ssAgentB0ss ✭✭✭✭✭

    Entirely Off Topic....

    However, like I said 3 of them would be considered neighborhood parks, all of those 3 have a sign and a playground and thats it...

    The other 2 like I said one has a basketball court, a playground, and some disc golf

    The third is nicer I agree, however my town is very small and very poor. So even if you have 1-2 portals at each neighborhood park is outweighs my whole city likely.

  • ComChanseyComChansey ✭✭✭

    I think 50 million XP would be an okay target.


    So you know how Niantic has to review a "statistically significant" amount of submissions due to the lawsuit settlement? I think just revoking OPR privileges to anyone the disagrees with them could be enough inventive to not approve everything if there were also a solid reward for hitting 80% agreements with over 50 agreements in a month. Perhaps.. a floral crown Rayquaza would do it... Gahahaha

    Or 5 rare candy per 100 agreements

  • TimerCIockTimerCIock ✭✭
    edited October 2
  • GearGliderGearGlider ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2

    Maybe it can be a location based limited time experience. Like an anomoly or Go-Fest.


    NIA goes to an area, rents out a park or something for the day, players can come in (if they have a ticket) and are shown how to review and are allowed to review a certain number of portals. If they have a good enough agreement or pass some test, they get to be a reviewer full-time.


    This is less feasable but I'm just spit-ballin'

  • PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭


    And none of what you've said in this thread has anything to do with ideas to protect onboarding PoGo reviewers to OPR.

    My only worry with short term tests, is that people can pass the test and then know they're in the clear, and start abusing the system. That's why my original suggestion up top did not tell them when their reviews started counting, it simply let them keep going. If they don't know whether they're in the clear or not, they're far more likely to review properly for longer, and get into the habit.

  • harkonnnenharkonnnen ✭✭✭

    Using XP as a gate is pretty redundant at this point since each friend you go BFF with gets you 163k which if you egged each level would be double that. So those daily 20 gifts would end up bring in 6.52mil after 90days

    They need something more and OPR, interacting with POI related

  • harkonnnenharkonnnen ✭✭✭

    That would be part of my idea to, that like alot niantic does it wouldnt be made known. Basically similar to it is now, harder to manipulate the system if you don't know how the system works

  • AgentB0ssAgentB0ss ✭✭✭✭✭

    Overall I agree but most people don't go to hard for EXP after level 40, so getting 50M would be level 40 x2.5. I agree maybe number of spins or unique portals, but unique portals could be very difficult for rural players.

  • GearGliderGearGlider ✭✭✭✭✭

    There are quite a few players who I know who still try to maximize XP gain after 40 cause they like seeing the numbers go up.


    Having in-game achievements is unfortunatly always going to hurt rural players but is one of the only ways there is to automate the process of selecting reviewers without someone making a bunch of simple bots to xp farm.

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