The POI database is the central repository for the locations of all portals, stops, gyms, inns, greenhouses, etc. A Point of Interest is a location and subject. The location and subject need to be at the same place (within reason). Choosing to move a POI's location 20ft away (e.g. your example) is called "abuse".
As I mentioned before, the Washington Monument can be seen from miles away. Can we legitimately place its corresponding portal on a random sidewalk in Virginia, say?
A church near me is on a hill top, using @TimerCIock logic I could populate my town with portals of a church over a mile away just because I can see it from different places
So at least he's admitting that "distance matters". Now it's only a matter of defining the scale.
We all agree that "miles" is too far away for a POI and its portal.
All-but-one-of-us agree that "0m" away is the "most" optimal location for the location.
One of us wholeheartedly believes that somewhere between "0m" and "the distance to the sidewalk" (which is an impossible to define distance, as it's situational -- sometimes 20m, sometimes 80m) is a viable location to place the gps pin.
If the accurate real-world location falls under any of these categories, choose the option that’s closest to the accurate location and also meets criteria and add a note before submitting.
* No pedestrian access
* On private residential property (including farms)
* On the grounds of primary/secondary schools (up to K-12)
* Obstructs the driveway of emergency services and may interfere with the operations of fire stations, police stations, hospitals, military bases, industrial sites, power plants, and air traffic control towers
* Object has been permanently removed and no longer exists at the location
The accurate real-world location is not 20 ft away by the road. If the accurate real world location has no pedestrian access IT IS NOT A VALID PORTAL.
It's been done. There's two portals for a church in Ipswich, QLD (or was) where one is "Church by Day" and the other, 40m away, is "Church by Night". Completely invalid, and approved back in the Panoramio days.
I've asked him multiple times to show me where on submission guidelines it says you can submit the portal anywhere but on the real world location of the POI. Not the reviewing guidelines which I've expressed are that way because the map can skew perception.
We were talking about editing portal locations to move portals for Gyms. However, this information is also replicated in parts throughout the main Help on reviewing Submissions.
Checking Location:
The real-world location of the Portal is extremely important. We want Agents to be able to visually see and experience the Portal candidate when they visit the real-world location. Please make sure to examine the real-world location of the Portal Candidate using a variety of sources, including maps and Street Views. You will be asked to rate the real-world location by answering the following questions:
* Is the location marker in the accurate spot?
* Can the Portal be safely accessed if the marker was in the right real-world location?
To rate the accuracy of the location:
Rate 5 stars if you can find the Portal candidate in the map and the marker is on or within a few feet of the real-world location of the object
Rate 3 stars if the Portal candidate is likely to exist in the real-world location if obscured by trees, or if you are unsure of the real-world location
Rate 1 star if the Portal candidate cannot be found on the map
Note: At times, you may not be able to view the Portal candidate in maps or Street View if the real-world location of the candidate is inside a park or under a tree. For these cases, use your best judgement to decide whether the candidate could exist at the real-world location. You can use the submission photo and look for clues in the background to help you decide.
True, a portal's edited location does indeed need to be held to the same scrutiny as its original placement.
It's a little unfortunate that Niantic's web developer can't keep the varied locations for all the equivalent information all in one central spot. And that any new references, such as AMAs, are not collected together for all to easily peruse.
Answers
I want him to define a portal to clear up the definition.
[citation needed]
The POI database is the central repository for the locations of all portals, stops, gyms, inns, greenhouses, etc. A Point of Interest is a location and subject. The location and subject need to be at the same place (within reason). Choosing to move a POI's location 20ft away (e.g. your example) is called "abuse".
As I mentioned before, the Washington Monument can be seen from miles away. Can we legitimately place its corresponding portal on a random sidewalk in Virginia, say?
Feet and miles are different....
Where is this written or is this another opinion?
Please "define" what a portal is.
A church near me is on a hill top, using @TimerCIock logic I could populate my town with portals of a church over a mile away just because I can see it from different places
So at least he's admitting that "distance matters". Now it's only a matter of defining the scale.
We all agree that "miles" is too far away for a POI and its portal.
All-but-one-of-us agree that "0m" away is the "most" optimal location for the location.
One of us wholeheartedly believes that somewhere between "0m" and "the distance to the sidewalk" (which is an impossible to define distance, as it's situational -- sometimes 20m, sometimes 80m) is a viable location to place the gps pin.
If the accurate real-world location falls under any of these categories, choose the option that’s closest to the accurate location and also meets criteria and add a note before submitting.
* No pedestrian access
* On private residential property (including farms)
* On the grounds of primary/secondary schools (up to K-12)
* Obstructs the driveway of emergency services and may interfere with the operations of fire stations, police stations, hospitals, military bases, industrial sites, power plants, and air traffic control towers
* Object has been permanently removed and no longer exists at the location
The accurate real-world location is not 20 ft away by the road. If the accurate real world location has no pedestrian access IT IS NOT A VALID PORTAL.
“Church: View from the North”
”Church: View from the Northeast”
”Church: View from the South”
....
....
etc.
I like it! Maybe if you do it it right, you can get a set of gyms arranged like bowling pins!
Fair enough. How many feet is ok, then?
Where you reading from?
It's been done. There's two portals for a church in Ipswich, QLD (or was) where one is "Church by Day" and the other, 40m away, is "Church by Night". Completely invalid, and approved back in the Panoramio days.
What is a portal?
Huh? Seriously?
The Portal Edit Help page...
Where are you making up your rules from?
If he's reading from official Niantic sources, would that help improve your opinion of our opinion?
Why are we talking portal edits on actual submissions? They are different guidelines.... that is nothing to do with portal reviews.
https://opr.ingress.com/help-edits
It's under Analyzing Locations which should be the guideline we're ALL using.
What is a portal?
I've asked him multiple times to show me where on submission guidelines it says you can submit the portal anywhere but on the real world location of the POI. Not the reviewing guidelines which I've expressed are that way because the map can skew perception.
Surprisingly he has never responded.
No they are different and written as such differently.
Find that information in portal submissions and reviewing portals.
You've really jumped the shark now.
We were talking about editing portal locations to move portals for Gyms. However, this information is also replicated in parts throughout the main Help on reviewing Submissions.
Checking Location:
The real-world location of the Portal is extremely important. We want Agents to be able to visually see and experience the Portal candidate when they visit the real-world location. Please make sure to examine the real-world location of the Portal Candidate using a variety of sources, including maps and Street Views. You will be asked to rate the real-world location by answering the following questions:
* Is the location marker in the accurate spot?
* Can the Portal be safely accessed if the marker was in the right real-world location?
To rate the accuracy of the location:
Rate 5 stars if you can find the Portal candidate in the map and the marker is on or within a few feet of the real-world location of the object
Rate 3 stars if the Portal candidate is likely to exist in the real-world location if obscured by trees, or if you are unsure of the real-world location
Rate 1 star if the Portal candidate cannot be found on the map
Note: At times, you may not be able to view the Portal candidate in maps or Street View if the real-world location of the candidate is inside a park or under a tree. For these cases, use your best judgement to decide whether the candidate could exist at the real-world location. You can use the submission photo and look for clues in the background to help you decide.
Here it is in the New Portal guidelines.
@TimerCIock Since you refuse to answer my very easy question. I will define it how I see a portal.
A portal is a virtual representation of a real world point of interest.
Now you might say, Niantic says they are 2 very different things. So I will let Niantic also define what a portal is for you and provide you links.
https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/ingress/?s=getting-started&f=initial-briefing&l=en&p=web
https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/ingress/?s=getting-started&f=interacting-with-portals-1542148760&l=en&p=web
True, a portal's edited location does indeed need to be held to the same scrutiny as its original placement.
It's a little unfortunate that Niantic's web developer can't keep the varied locations for all the equivalent information all in one central spot. And that any new references, such as AMAs, are not collected together for all to easily peruse.
Hold on
You are saying edit guidelines have nothing to do with portal submissions
But
Portal review guidelines do have to do with submissions.
You cant just pick and choose what set of rules you follow.
Tbf to you you dont do that either, you just make up your own rules no matter how invalid and follow your own TimerClock rules.
It's not its worded differently and if you read it allows per my argument. As they do not have to be exactly on the poi per it.