Submitting for other people
We have a local (former banned player, has started a new account) that has posted a form on PoGo forums, offering to submit pokestops - people just have to fill location, name, description and a photo, and he forwards to Niantic. A bunch of his portals are now live in cities where he never played. He was reported, but nothing came out of it. Should we take it then that this behavior is acceptable?
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prime (i think) has since stopped the ability to drastically change the location pins position... so hes going to have to spoof to get these portals you are talking about. Report him again, but with proof. screenshots of him saying that he will do this so they can look at the account with a discerning eye.
Not acceptable. The reason why the submission process currently works the way it does is because we want the person taking the photo to be able to confirm the candidate exists and explain why it is a good candidate.
Its against TOS Agreed
If you are share that Google form then NIA would investigate faster, If that agent spoofing and submitting portals is completely not acceptable
@StrikingStorm he may not be spoofing in your standard definition. It is possible to move the portal location infinitely in Redacted. This isn't faking a location at all the because game knows where he is and doesn't care that the portal is 10km away. He is using a software that simulates a camera and uses a previously taken photo. I can see where niantic may have issues with that particular part. If he was physically going to the spot and verifying I would see this as minor but the bigger thing is taking random unverified info and abusing the system that way. As mentioned above prime closes the loophole so this won't last long regardless.
Prime hasn't closed the loophole.
Several submissions have been reviewed by numerous people with both the sub and supporting photo being identical down to all the 0's and 1's.
People have been selling portal submissions for Pokemon go over eBay for awhile.
I doubt anyone spends 20 bucks on a portal which is not really close to their couch.
I think this should be punishible if someone was found guilty, without doubt.
But to be sure without doubt, it's pretty hard and you most certainly need to be caught on eBay selling them or something.
On the other side, my mobile traffic is limited, so I often save pictures of POI's and submit them when I have an unmetered connection. (Usually my home wifi). Also because you are limited in what you can submit in a certain timeframe, I save picture of great POI's and submit them as soon as I have some free slots.
I don't think this unwanted behaviour, is it?
We also have 3 PoGo players selling submissions using Fake Camera. Take a picture and submit 30km elsewhere. Btw. one submitted a new photo to an existing portal and this photo was used for a fake portal 12km in a village then by the other player.
A few of the portals is also back at the right position or gone again. But that's a lot of work until the support can act there. (Which one is also partly understandable with possibilities of the abuse)
If posible i can deliver more details.
@SirKingIke that is unwanted behaviour and directly against the Terms of Service.
@LemoMcLemonFace could you provide an excerpt of the TOS you are referring to? I have obviously read the TOS and could not spot any point stating it's wrong to save mobile traffic?
just to make this clear, I haven't submitted portals I haven't been to myself. Neither did I submit portals where I haven't done the picture myself.
just for the curious, what would be bad about this? I see most people abuse it, but does that negate the positive things that happen through this?
Just another point, Niantic allows you to submit portals all around the world, and now limits it to 5km radius. If this is unwanted, why didn't they reduce it to, let's say 100 meters? This would really stop people being able to submit portals from a different location (e.g. where they get public WiFi etc ). Allowing up to 5km radius is Niantic basicly saying, it's okay to submit portals you have been to and which are close by. At least that's my perception. And probably the perception of most casual players which do not even think about stuff like this.
@RedSoloCup ok, I'll take this up with the Vanguards then, maybe they'll have better luck presenting the evidence. Thank you.
@SirKingIke re-read the tos.
Several sections can be applied here, but just for your ease, section 3.1,first bullet point.
"Accessing Services in an unauthorized manner (including using modified or unofficial third party software)"
Section 6,6th bullet point
"bypass, remove, deactivate, descramble, or otherwise circumvent any technological measure implemented by Niantic or any of Niantic’s providers or any other third party (including another user) to protect the Services or Content"
@redsolocup, in this thread, has stated it is not acceptable.
It doesn't matter if it makes your life easier, saves you data yada yada yada.
It's not permitted.
Hm my comment didn't appear.
Guess it's because of who I tagged.
@SirKingIke read the answers in this thread, NIA state even here it is not acceptable.
Tos.
Section 3
Accessing Services in an unauthorized manner (including using modified or unofficial third party software)
Section 6
bypass, remove, deactivate, descramble, or otherwise circumvent any technological measure implemented by Niantic or any of Niantic’s providers or any other third party (including another user) to protect the Services or Content
@LemoMcLemonFace thanks for your reply. But no need to post the same thing twice. I would consider this spam.
Thanks for pointing out what parts you have been referring too.
In contrast to your opinion I do not see any violation here. But thanks for your input.
1. You access the game through either Scanner REDACTED or Prime so you don't violate Section 3.
2. As do not need to bypass any of technical measurement, there is no violation of Section 6 either.
Niantic does not use an internal camera and offers you to choose the camera app you like, therefore allows cameras which can insert pictures you have already taken. On redacted they even give you the choice to use an existing picture. Also they give you the freedom to put the pin anywhere in the world, if you like. So you are certainly playing within the rules Niantic set here.
So if Niantic does not want this, they should either limit the way you can choose the portal location (which they do in prime) and/or only allow an app intern camera. They certainly have the technical means to set it up like this.
As long as they do not do that, you do not violate the TOS, at least not the sections you mentioned.
And to what Niantic stated above, is referring to submitting portals for other people. Please do not take the reply out of context to fit your needs. He clearly stated they want to make sure the portal exists at the location, and therefore do not want people submitting stuff from other people. That is not even remotely applicable to what we have been talking about.
Otherwise it would be great if Niantic clarifies on this. @RedSoloCup
@SirKingIke prime uses the os native camera app, it doesn't give you a choice.
Redacted doesn't allow you to select an existing image for submissions.
Measures were implemented in prime, to prevent using existing images, including not saving the photos taken on your device.
8f you have a third party piece of software installed, such as Fake Camera, then you are bypassing the intended functions of prime/redacted.
As for clarification, see the response from Krug in this very thread.
So I'll guess it's up to Niantic to clarify on this.
You certainly do not understand how the android eco system works. Are you using an apple device?
Also there is no post from user "Krug" in this thread. Maybe you got confused or something with a different topic?
Andrew Krug, aka Red Solo Cup.
The niantic Community manager who runs the amas that clarrifed this subject numerous times since opr was opened up to the masses.
As for what type of phone I use, that's irrelevant, but to sate your desire, android based.
Okay, because prime still asks me what camera app I want to use. Just sayin'.
Also it's normal in the android eco system to use api's to access certain device functions as the camera. And as long the game asks me to choose, I really don't see any trouble here.
And sorry, I only can go by his username. I don't know his real name. But cool you do. I don't even know what amas are.. are there released any where on the official game or website? I have googled, found copy's, but not the original ones. Where do I find those?
Originals where on Google+, archived versions are available.
It's 2 different things.
I don't see the problem with submitting portals for other people (even if you know they just want the stops/gyms). So long as you travel to the spot and submit it in person.
Once you start using supplied pictures etc than no that's should be a removal of privilege.
@harkonnnen the suggestion of a player going to the location and submitting it for a pogo player was not mentioned in this thread, until you mentioned it.
This thread is two fold.
1. A person is monetizing remote submissions.
2. Remote submissions are not allowed.
@LemonMcLemonFace no need to jump down my throat, all I was saying was that submitting for other people is fine and actually promotes a good community, since the title is 'Submitting for other people'. That the issue is remote submitting which should be banned and monetizing submitting (Though I wouldn't say no to someone buying me a drink or meal for helping out).
@LemoMcLemonFace is sadly not smart enough to realize the second point he mentioned is allowed and has never been exempted with the post by @RedSoloCup.
As long as you full fill these requirements you should be fine submitting portals from a different location.
Quote from above:
"we want the person taking the photo to be able to confirm the candidate exists and explain why it is a good candidate"
He is just maliciously trying to push his personal opinion into your head. (Because salty? I don't know)
There's likely more, but NIA have spoken on it multiple times, not once have they said its OK to circumvent the submission process with a third party app, nor have they said its OK to submit remote locations.
So both of you can shh.
Wow there’s a lot of violation of Wheaton's Law going on here.
@SirKingIke it’s irrelevant whether it’s the letter of the law or the spirit of the law that’s being broken here. It’s abundantly clear that the intention within the submission mechanism is that the Agent should be *at the location* of the potential portal at the point that they submit.
You really tried hard to find anything that supports your opinion, but non actually do. I don't spoof or fake my location. I never said that.
As long as I don't get banned or anyone from Niantic saying hey, we don't want what you are doing I will be continuing.
As long as they are freely giving me the option to chose a gallery cam, I will not stopsubmitting portals with it. If they remove that option, I will simply not be able to do so. Because I really won't modify the app or install anything else besides my stock Android and apps available in the official Google play store.
I hope you now understand.
They removed the functionality to use images from your gallery many many years ago, the fact you circumvent this is clearly showing you don't care either way.
I did a very quick search in the curated ama archive for the above screenshots, NIA have said it multiple times, do not remote submit.
The fact you're openly admitting to doing so, on a forum directly linked to your agent profile, I hope Nia review your submissions and take action against any that have circumvented the wanted behaviour.
As I stated above, the option is still availabe in prime to choose any app you like to supply a picture. But you are ignoring it. I will stop at this point as you seem to not be able to grasp simple arguments.
And if you talking this cocky as you have been all along, no one will take you for serious anyway.
Cheers ****.
I've contacted support for clarification, and they actually confirmed what you have been saying. So I will follow this, and continue submitting only using my native stock photo app. I have attached the reply I recieved towards my request, which is pretty straight forward.
So I guess I have to apologize to you.
Sorry. @LemoMcLemonFace
While I still think Niantic does not make that very clear if you are using only the app itself without looking here or on other sources Niantic comments.
Whoa someone on the internet being humble and apologising!! Wow massive props to you @SirKingIke 👏👏👏👏 that’s awesome
I opted not to reply as, in my opinion, enough 'evidence' had already been provided on the player stance being utterly wrong.