Accepted wayspot never made it to Ingress, despite there being no portals within 20 meters

Wayspot title "Purple Coneflower," location 39.282288 , -76.600439 was accepted on 5/18. It is now 5/21 and it still has not shown up, even though things accepted after it have. The location coordinates that I submitted perfectly match the coordinates for it in the Wayfarer app so the location was not changed upon review. The closest existing portal is "Bug Hotel Informational Sign" (location 39.282287, -76.600048), which is over 33 meters away. There is a closer wayspot in Lightship but it does not appear in Ingress, only Pokemon, so it shouldn't affect my submission appearing in Ingress. What is going on here?

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  • Copy and pasted from the Wayferer forum, where an ambassador told me to post it here since it's Ingress specific. That's why the above says 5/21 when it was posted on 5/25.

  • mortuusmortuus ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2023

    try give image thumbs up in pogo

    also when u submit portals its to database and each game has its own rules how new portals are accepted

  • DSktrDSktr ✭✭✭✭

    Should be reported to wayfarer forum. I have 5-6 approved to nowhere(database,okaay)

    Now i not gonna submit(at least two were rejected and approved with the same photo by one poke..hmm,Agent). Not gonna scan. Atleast until removal messages will be heard and also MY nominations will be counted as something i done not one stole and approved via bots.

  • I can't do that as it does not appear in Pogo, it is Lightship only. And yes, I know each game has its own rules. My understanding is that Ingress's rule is that a new portal has to be further than 20 m from an existing portal, which this one is.

  • If you read the first comment on this thread, I did post this in the Wayfarer forum before posting it here. They told me to post it here.

  • TntnnbltnTntnnbltn ✭✭✭

    I have reviewed the Wayspot details and concur that this should be escalated for investigation.

    "Purple Coneflower" has coordinates of 39.282288, -76.600439 (confirmed via Wayfarer).

    The nearest live portal is "Bug Hotel Information Sign" at 39.282287, -76.600048. That is 33.66 metres from "Purple Coneflower". Based on Ingress proximity rules, "Purple Coneflower" should go live.

    This issue appears to be "Foxglove Hairy Beardtongue", which is not in Ingress. It is located at 39.282297, -76.600242, which places it 16.99 metres from "Purple Coneflower".

    The Ingress ingestion rules appear to be checking if there are any Wayspots within 20 metres of the newly accepted Wayspot in order to determine Ingress eligibility. That is an incorrect implementation. Instead, it should check if there are any Portals within 20 metres of the newly accepted Wayspot. Wayspots which are not live in Ingress should not block others from going live.

  • mortuusmortuus ✭✭✭✭✭
  • ForzaComoForzaComo ✭✭✭

    You can try adding a new photo with Lightship. That might take time, yes, but that should force a new sync between Lightship and Ingress when the photo is added.

    I did this once when there was a bug with sync and some portals never appeared in Ingress.

  • TntnnbltnTntnnbltn ✭✭✭
    edited May 2023

    I can provide two additional examples which may be related.

    Images show the locations of accepted Wayspots (coordinates confirmed via Wayfarer app). The portals have 20 metre radius shown.

    Based on Ingress' proximity rules, each situation below should have spawn one (or more) portals.

    "Welcome to the Western Australian Botanic Garden" (-31.961384, 115.841257) -- located 22.24 m from the nearest live portal but seemingly blocked by "Western Australian Conservation Garden" (not a portal) located 19.63 m away.

    Blue Sun Orchid (Thelymitra macrophylla)" (-32.032175,115.828537) is over 20 metres away from the nearest live portals

    "Kangaroo Paw (Anigozanthos manglesii)" (-32.031574,115.82885)

    "Blue Flax Lily (Dianella revoluta)" (-32.031638,115.828956)

    "Synaphea spinulosa" (-32.031693, 115.829084)

  • ForzaComoForzaComo ✭✭✭
    edited May 2023

    If I am correct, the 20 meter proximity rule is counted from the nearest wayspot, not portal.

    So if there are wayspots (portals or not) at < 20 meter radius, they won't appear in Ingress.

    Edit. Ah, that was the point of your post. So yes, that is the case. 👍 That's why the new wayspot of @burgersub won't appear in Ingress. No magic trick won't help in here.

  • The ambassador above thinks this is incorrect, as do I. As I said in the Wayfarer forum post I created about this, having it work this way would be insane because you could theoretically end up with an enormous area with only one portal in it, but stuffed full of things in the Lightship database, if they were all submitted in a specific sequence. As I also mentioned in the other forum post, I personally have gotten something accepted that appears in Ingress despite being 0.6 meters away from the nearest thing in the Lightship database as recently as February of this year.

  • TntnnbltnTntnnbltn ✭✭✭

    The ambassador above thinks this is incorrect, as do I. 

    I think both of you are correct. I agree that that is how it seems to currently work, and I agree that is not at all how it should work and that it should be addressed.

  • @Tntnnbltn did we ever hear anything back about this?

  • @Tntnnbltn FYI this portal appeared in Ingress over night. Thanks for your help.

  • TntnnbltnTntnnbltn ✭✭✭
    edited July 2023

    That's good to hear for you, although the bug is still occurring.

    Three more portals affected.

    • "East Timor (1980-2000)" (-32.12526,115.851982)
    • "Peace Keeping (1980-2000)" (-32.125291,115.85198)
    • "Crimean War (1853-1856)" (-32.125202,115.852111)

    All are at least 20 metres from the nearest live portal. One of these should have turned into a portal.

  • TntnnbltnTntnnbltn ✭✭✭

    Another affected portal:

    • "Dr John Beard" (-31.966867,115.837607)
  • TntnnbltnTntnnbltn ✭✭✭

    Another affected portal:

    • "Sunflower mosaic" (-31.86205,116.269215)
  • Check at wayfarer site, if those portals were "corrected its position" by reviewers.

    At the wayfarer site shows the accepted position.

    Happened to me with some portals and portals never appeared.

  • TntnnbltnTntnnbltn ✭✭✭

    The coordinates I am providing are from the live Wayspot positions on Wayfarer app / Lightship. Some of these were not my submissions.

  • I’ll add my missing portal too.

    Waypoint : Samuel Plimsoll MP

    Location : (51.0803664, 1.1865278)

  • DSktrDSktr ✭✭✭✭

    I have approximately ten accepted nominations never gone live in Ingress. Some of them was even before 20m rule. Few gone live only in PoGo. One was only in HPWU:) i even installed PoGo to look for that nominations xD

    I can't understand that logic. Before only Ingress users had submission feature so we had some blue L8 boom. Now afaik Ingress is not nessesary,so why if i successfully submit PoI it goes to Lightship DB or to PoGo? If i submit that via Ingress i expect Ingress result.

    Even more i know at least 3 portals that was rejected from me and then resubmitted and approved by PoGo users. Usually i add my photo and put some likes,but i still feel upset in such case.

  • TntnnbltnTntnnbltn ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the additional example.

    The coordinates in the Lightship database are slightly different so providing the Lightship data for the purposes of distance calculations: 51.080371,1.186524

    "Samuel Plimsoll MP" is greater than 20 metres from the nearest live portals:

    • Located 21.03 metres from "Folkestone’s Fishing Heritage And History Museum." (51.080539,1.186386)
    • Located 22.40 metres from "Other People's Photographs R9, Radnor Street" (51.08057,1.186573)

    The reason it is not live is because there is a Wayspot called "British Sub-Aqua Club, 501 Folkestone Branch" at 51.080433,1.186576. This is not a portal, but as it is located 7.79 metres from "Samuel Plimsoll MP", it has blocked "Samuel Plimsoll MP" from becoming a portal.

  • this is still happening, when will the ingress team fix their portal ingestion logic?

  • mortuusmortuus ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2023

    This has nothing to do with ingress, its lightship and each game has its own rules what portals will be added its not like before all portals synced first to ingress. But if its not a portal within 20m it should be added but if not idk really...

  • @tehstone and I are Wayfarer Ambassadors. We liaise directly with Niantic staff from the Wayfarer team.

    This is an Ingress issue, as per communications from our contacts at the Wayfarer team. It is up to the Ingress team to solve it.

    Note that we are specifically talking about accepted Wayspots with no live portals within 20 metres not going live because of non-portal Wayspots in Lightship being near them. This is not a misunderstanding of the 20 metre proximity rules on our part.

  • no. this is on the ingress team. trust me, I got the answer from the wayfarer team directly.

    game teams control syncing from lightship to their game.

  • mortuusmortuus ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes that is strange indeed the 20m rule should accept the portal into the game not sure what causes it not appear

  • The thing that causes it not to appear if that if checks if there are any Lightship Wayspots within 20 metres, not if there are any portals within 20 metres.

    Pre-Lightship this was not an issue, because all Wayspots were portals and all portals were Wayspots. Ingress held the master database of POIs.

    Their inclusion system for checking whether to bring a Wayspot into a game needs to only look a ‘portals’ when it checks for distance.

    It should be relatively straightforward for them to fix and is frustrating that they are turning a blind eye to this issue.

  • Recent NIA activity in Canberra, Australia, saw large numbers of Wayspots retired and unretired at certain locations such as the Australian War Memorial over the last week.

    However, due to this bug, portals which should be eligible to go back online as portals have not.

    This is illustrated in the below image. All purple dots represent things that are live in Wayfarer app, with exact coordinates. Orange are the live portals, with a 20 metre radius shown.

    Purple dots inside the 20 metre radius should not go online -- that part is correct -- but then those Wayspots are blocking others from going live.

    The 30 purple dots outside the 20 metre radius represent Wayspots which should have/could have gone live as portals. If this bug were not occurring, approximately 9 additional portals would be present (e.g. the blue circles added below).

    This has also happened at the ACT Memorial. One or two additional portals should be present here given the distribution of Wayspots.

    And another nearby area which is missing approximately 8 portals:

    Just to be clear, these portals USED TO BE LIVE. Niantic retired the Wayspots in these areas last week, which made them disappear from Pokemon Go and Ingress, and then restored them a day later. They reappeared in Pokemon Go, but did not reappear correctly in Ingress due to this inclusion bug.

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