No communication again, just standard copy+paste

Henno86Henno86 ✭✭✭
edited November 22 in General

#FreeAzarole

https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/comment/180750#Comment_180750


NianticVK Niantic › mod 9:54PM

Thanks for the lively discussion, Agents! However, we are unable to review these reports on our social channels. Please reach out via in-app support.

That said, I'll be closing this thread for future comments. I appreciate your understanding!

Post edited by NianticVK on
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Comments

  • PolderPiraatPolderPiraat ✭✭✭
    edited November 12

    #freeAzarole

    Ingame support keeps on closing the issue without addressing the concern; a flaw in the banning system could instant ban anyone.

    please have a look at the forum for more de details about this interesting case:

    https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/20512/community-request-to-undo-false-positive-ban-freeazarole/p1

    unfortunately NianticVK did not address the concerns mentioned in in the thread.

    such as:

    * Multiple agents are banned on the same day with the OnePlus Nord 2 phone.


    * Why not using 3 strikes? A false positive strike has less damage and also allows for feedback and improvement of an algorithm.


    * We always had vanguards and trusted reporters to relay community feedback. This seems to be ignored nowdays? Even anomaly organiser commented in the thread.


    * The why, some dialogue or proof about the reason for a ban.


    * this can happen to any agent account who is deeply invested in this game with event participations and bought badges and items, bought CM, souvenir keys, mission banners. This makes agents people distrustful of nia and stop investing.


    There have been bans based on updated android and iOS in the past. Mostly Chinese androids like huawei and Xiaomi and in this case of OnePlus Nord 2 started using oppo's coloros. It is likely the case here too. For example:


    regards,

    merijn

  • People still give lots of money to Niantic in ingress, buying those packages with medals of random people and stickers -people from the community in my country's capital import those and pays a lot for them- Add that to CORE subs and people paying for CMU. I stopped doing that months ago. They don't deserve my money considering they don't care about us, the community.

    What's sadder is if people stop giving them money the situation is gonna get worse, and it feels like it will never get better given the conditions we see now.

  • Reopening this thread in a new thread is going to result in:

    Thanks for the lively discussion, Agents! However, we are unable to review these reports on our social channels. Please reach out via in-app support.

    That said, I'll be closing this thread for future comments. I appreciate your understanding!

    again from @NianticVK

  • For Brian to say he cares for the community, but bluntly portrays players to be cheaters when it's a technical issue.

    These rude insults are not called for. That hurts the players deeply

    That hurts the community.

    Please check what happened october 20th.

  • mortuusmortuus ✭✭✭✭✭

    they should atleast overlook all those bans to make sure no error has been made because no system is perfect and those players deserve a fair chance

  • SSSputnikSSSputnik ✭✭✭✭✭

    I did find it very ironic Brians LA speech when he proclaimed it was all about the player community and we have basically total silence from Niantic on so many things.

  • SSSputnikSSSputnik ✭✭✭✭✭

    So- I've not seen anyone pop up saying "Haha no, these guys cheat badly and deserve their bans".

    Maybe Niantic could just give benefit of doubt quietly and reinstate?

  • JertKuJertKu ✭✭✭

    Nia sure respects its community and paying customers.

  • Alfred42Alfred42 ✭✭✭

    According to the photo you uploaded, you are banned because you violated ToS.

    Banning a player violating ToS is actually respecting the community and paying customers who follow the guideline.

  • You literally took a screenshot that I made where I further describe the concerns and issue the Ingress community takes with this level of communication - it's simply not enough. "ToS violation" could include multiple reasons, and the further comments haven't narrowed down the cause for this account or any others.


  • I'm concerned that taking this approach would set the precedent that any community pressure will reinstate accounts - we want Niantic to give insight as to what cheating was done to the players in question, not give anyone their accounts back regardless of whether a cheating detection was false positive or not.

  • Alfred42Alfred42 ✭✭✭

    During AMA, Brian also clearly explained that the reason they won't disclose the accurate action leading to ban, because that would help cheaters escape from being detected by the system.

    You literally went through the whole AMA session and answers. Why still asking for "accurate action"? Why trying to help cheaters?

  • Alfred42Alfred42 ✭✭✭

    Niantic has given reasons: using modified software, 3rd-party tools, etc. Brian said that they communicated with that player so that player has received the reasons provided by Niantic. Why you guys keep speaking for that player and doing "FreeXYZ" when himself/herself doesn't say anything now? His/her forum account doesn't likely to have been banned.

    Insights have been given by Niantic but you chose to ignore.

  • Alfred42Alfred42 ✭✭✭
    edited November 20

    According to Brian's replies during AMA, they really did a review and confirmed that there is nothing wrong with the ban decision. I'm happy to see that Niantic sticks to the original decision without being influenced by any political movement encouraged by IFS or something. If players violate ToS then they should take the consequence. Famous names should not have privileges.

  • mortuusmortuus ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20

    It would just be fair to state the reason for ban, nobody is asking that niantic provide how they caught someone, 2 different things. If someone **** in comm then ban reason should be: comm harassment repeated offense etc....

  • Alfred42Alfred42 ✭✭✭

    Brian said Ingress team has communicated with that player. That 100% includes a reason for ban. Either that player didn't disclose it but kept saying "I didn't receive anything", or Brian and Ingress team was not telling the truth.

    Which one would you prefer? Why didn't that player come and speak for himself?

  • People are banned so the ToS violation is implied. They need to say what part of it was violated.

    If you're just coming back with "you violated ToS" nothing may just as well have been said in it's stead.

  • Cheaters don't need help they are obvously perfectly capable poking at Niantics inner workings themselves as evidenced by them very much still beeing a problem.

    No cheater is helped by disclosing ban reason. Why would they wait for Niantic support to say something if they can just keep throwing junk accounts at the problem?

    This whole "not wanting to help cheaters" just smells like a gigantic cop-out to any kind of accountability.

  • SSSputnikSSSputnik ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21

    Apart from all else. A 'narrowing' of ban reason would be good.

    If you are a cheat, and falsify location, modify the client etc, and get banned, you already know WHY you got banned.

    Violating ToS is too vague. Niantic reserve the right in the ToS to suspend or delete your account for ANY reason, including but not limited to, "we just felt like it". (Not saying they would do that, but that is how broad the ToS actually are).

    I agree, you don't want to give away too much info to cheats or it helps subvert the anti cheat mechanism, however, could Niantic move to categories?

    "Your account was terminated due to location spoofing"

    "Your account was terminated due to receiving bought gear"

    "Your account was terminated due to modified client being detected"

    "Your account was terminated due to unsportmanlike conduct"

    I think that level of detail is enough for the players without helping cheats.

    That said, if you go such a message, and thought you were innocent, would it actually help with an appeal? Probably not. It may allow you to go "Oh I was driving through a tunnel then, see map here and photo of tunnel" etc.

    Anyway, a little more clarity would be nice, does it help? I dunno.

    Post edited by SSSputnik on
  • Alfred42Alfred42 ✭✭✭

    No. Niantic told that player which part of it was violated.

    If you are coming back with "Niantic said nothing" drama then you are implying that Niantic is telling lies.

  • Alfred42Alfred42 ✭✭✭
    edited November 21

    Let that player speak for himself. He received emails from Niantic. Why telling other players that he received nothing.

    Narrowing ban reasons is not a good idea. Players who violate multiple rules will instantly know which exact rule is the one they could not violate and which ones are good to ignore.

  • Alfred42Alfred42 ✭✭✭
    edited November 21

    Let that player speak for himself. I'm fed up with this drama filling up the community. Endless creating new posts after getting closed but nothing new.

  • The only answer you get is that you violated TOS, that includes technical incompatibility, not only cheating.

    Why do they have to kick a player down when they're already down, by only stating that they violate TOS.

    With the abbundance of phones and systems it's impossible to keep up with all those technologies.

    I implore them to acknowledge at least that, in their reactions to appeals.

  • Just by ignoring the elephant in the room doesn't make it disappear.

  • Alfred42Alfred42 ✭✭✭
    edited November 21

    What elephants? I see only some players ignoring the fact that "Niantic has communicated with that player".

  • Alfred42Alfred42 ✭✭✭

    No, if a ban appeal is denied, Niantic will send an email telling players that he/she has violated some rules and list all relevant rules.

    The mail could contain multiple possible reasons. But they are reasons. It's not "Niantic gave no reasons" and not simply "you violated ToS".

  • Kevinsky86Kevinsky86 ✭✭✭
    edited November 21

    By "told that player" i'm assuming you are referencing your earlier statement "using modified software, 3rd-party tools, etc." which i'm sure you'll agree is excessively vague and fundamentally unusuable if you're not aware of any wrongdoing.

    IITC is used by many agents, their dog and they dog's squeeky toy. It is also "3rd party tool". So is agent stats. AOD. And so are the myriad of performance accelerators and whatnot found, by default, on many phones. Many of which interact with the client without you necesarily realizing.

    This wouldn't be the first ban wave caused by some specific oneplus or huawei tool.

    So, ban for software. What software?

    Besides, this goes further then just getting someone their account back. I as essentially an external spectator to this whole thing need cirtainty I won't also lose my account to some overzealous mechanism that disagrees with me using something that is not an iPhone or Galaxy phone if I am to continue giving Niantic money.

    You could feed the entire home less population in my local city for at least a week off the money i've givin Niantic over the years for what are essentially banana stickers in my agent profile and their digital currency as well as swag packs. If they will just take all that value and history away on a whim i'm no longer interested in this game.

    Solid anti cheat is a must, but so is trust from your player base in said system and the processes around it.

This discussion has been closed.