The lag is enough of a justification to get rid of them
You're joking, right?
If there's a popular feature that improves the user experience but might possibly be causing some lag then the right answer is to fix the feature or the capacity to support the feature, not take away something that people use and rely on. If there are negative gameplay ramifications then address them (like they did when they nerfed VR dupes) rather than killing the whole feature.
Ingress has growth and retention issues right now. I've said this before, but taking away a popular feature is not going to improve either retention or growth.
I wonder why people disagree with facts. The fact is that during the anomaly windows, more people were playing, but less latency issues were observed. Even confirmed by Brian.
Ah well. (Wish they would just get rid of these 'like/agree/disagree' buttons. They add to nothing and farming likes to post more content is just sad spam protection.)
I cant see why kinetic should make the quantum unnecessary. I use both kinds. The quantum to grow purple heatsinks and multihacks, and the kinetic to turn the rare hackmodds to very rare. It works out pretty good.
Multiaccs are a problem, but I think it might be less of a problem make if one could understand why people use them. But manking inventory dynamic, so that the inventory will shrink due to less activity might do something. And by activity I dont mean farming, but fielding.
Where is even the thought that lag is coming from computation of the Quantum caps? Brian's tweet about it stated nothing about it and it's frustrating that people make assumptions and run with it like it's some fact.
Easy way to test this. Switch off duping for 1 week and see if the lag goes away. I suspect it will not since no one at Niantic seems to know what causes the lag.
Why not retire the Rare Capsules instead? Those are being used by bots and multi-accounters to pass keys around so they can rethrow or keep BAFs up too.
Based of the bug reports, quantum duplication was off during the Munich anomaly (at least from July 29 to Aug 02)
Which could explain the lag-free anomaly
my big question is: Quantum duplication does not trigger a message or anything, why not just trigger a duplication calculation whenever the scanner is started (if not done in last 24h) instead of doing it every day?l, regardless of activity?
If calculating interest causes lag then Niantic should address that issue.
There is no reason that Niantic can't segregate the interest calculation to its own fleet of servers and not put load on the ones that are serving player traffic. This is such a standard design pattern that I'd be surprised if they didn't do it that way. There could still be resource contention for the underlying database but that too is just a matter of architecture and scaling. (I do this stuff for a living, at a scale large enough that all of Ingress could fit in our buffer capacity.)
The duping of items, especially keys, has had a negative influence on the game, a push towards doing nothing and receiving something in return.
Niantic will obviously need to introduce a number of new recipes to make up for Qcaps, but key duplication needs to go away, these days especially getting keys is no longer difficult.
I think it's cost of resources, which could cause latency. As other people pointed out, during anomaly QC duplication was disabled/broken and people experienced less latency.
In any case, it seems to be some kind of capacity problem, or at least something to do with optimization/scalability. During peak gameplay they up capacity and disable features to have a smooth experience. The sad thing is, we're coming up or are at 2 years with this same problem, with no end in sight.
Now we're all speculating and trying to figure out what is going on. It would be nice to see some kind of technical insight from for example @ofer2, like he did in the past.
If you force them to "play" people will play with multiple accounts to trigger the duplication.
Any idea that is reliant on information from the client, will be defeated.
This is such a standard design pattern that I'd be surprised if they didn't do it that way
We are still running on 10-12 year old spagehetti code wrapped in a completely different platform to what it was built for. The final way to fix lag will be to rewrite the server on Lightship using all the knowledge gained from the PoGo redesign etc, but until that happens, any "It's easy to change" argument is difficult to make on the server architecture.
I'd assume that someone like @ofer2 is doing a 20% project to start building the components on a Lightship base (or I'd hope someone is), but any claims of how it should be because that's how you do it in 2022 are very inaccurate.
But then I could not give duplicated keys to my team mates, which I find very useful for portals that can only be visited once a year or even once in a lifetime.
Comments
Then kinetic caps will be abused...
God no. The spoofers with hacked clients would have a field day.
You can't trust the client.
I wonder if we hit a critical mass of quantums which cause the game lag we all want fixed.
lags is just nia being cheap and keeping servers at lowest possible.
there are no lags during anomalies.
"no lag during anomalies"
wot
@Perringaiden says:
The lag is enough of a justification to get rid of them
You're joking, right?
If there's a popular feature that improves the user experience but might possibly be causing some lag then the right answer is to fix the feature or the capacity to support the feature, not take away something that people use and rely on. If there are negative gameplay ramifications then address them (like they did when they nerfed VR dupes) rather than killing the whole feature.
Ingress has growth and retention issues right now. I've said this before, but taking away a popular feature is not going to improve either retention or growth.
I wonder why people disagree with facts. The fact is that during the anomaly windows, more people were playing, but less latency issues were observed. Even confirmed by Brian.
Ah well. (Wish they would just get rid of these 'like/agree/disagree' buttons. They add to nothing and farming likes to post more content is just sad spam protection.)
they just increase the server capacity at peak hours during anomalies otherwise servers would just meltdown.
I cant see why kinetic should make the quantum unnecessary. I use both kinds. The quantum to grow purple heatsinks and multihacks, and the kinetic to turn the rare hackmodds to very rare. It works out pretty good.
Multiaccs are a problem, but I think it might be less of a problem make if one could understand why people use them. But manking inventory dynamic, so that the inventory will shrink due to less activity might do something. And by activity I dont mean farming, but fielding.
Where is even the thought that lag is coming from computation of the Quantum caps? Brian's tweet about it stated nothing about it and it's frustrating that people make assumptions and run with it like it's some fact.
Brian mentioned per account. Not per item. I imagine there's different ways to apply an interest to the caps?
This is why assumptions shouldn't be made as easily because there's also the following questions:
Easy way to test this. Switch off duping for 1 week and see if the lag goes away. I suspect it will not since no one at Niantic seems to know what causes the lag.
What hacked clients?
Why not retire the Rare Capsules instead? Those are being used by bots and multi-accounters to pass keys around so they can rethrow or keep BAFs up too.
Based of the bug reports, quantum duplication was off during the Munich anomaly (at least from July 29 to Aug 02)
Which could explain the lag-free anomaly
my big question is: Quantum duplication does not trigger a message or anything, why not just trigger a duplication calculation whenever the scanner is started (if not done in last 24h) instead of doing it every day?l, regardless of activity?
If calculating interest causes lag then Niantic should address that issue.
There is no reason that Niantic can't segregate the interest calculation to its own fleet of servers and not put load on the ones that are serving player traffic. This is such a standard design pattern that I'd be surprised if they didn't do it that way. There could still be resource contention for the underlying database but that too is just a matter of architecture and scaling. (I do this stuff for a living, at a scale large enough that all of Ingress could fit in our buffer capacity.)
Whether Qcaps cause lag or not is irrelevant.
The duping of items, especially keys, has had a negative influence on the game, a push towards doing nothing and receiving something in return.
Niantic will obviously need to introduce a number of new recipes to make up for Qcaps, but key duplication needs to go away, these days especially getting keys is no longer difficult.
You could make it so keys only dupe with walking? ie Rare Caps.
The risk there I guess is direct manipulation of walked distance.
@Perringaiden I see cost, but not lag.
I can think of multiple strategies for restricting replication in backpack accounts, one of which I've mentioned earlier in this discussion.
I think it's cost of resources, which could cause latency. As other people pointed out, during anomaly QC duplication was disabled/broken and people experienced less latency.
In any case, it seems to be some kind of capacity problem, or at least something to do with optimization/scalability. During peak gameplay they up capacity and disable features to have a smooth experience. The sad thing is, we're coming up or are at 2 years with this same problem, with no end in sight.
Now we're all speculating and trying to figure out what is going on. It would be nice to see some kind of technical insight from for example @ofer2, like he did in the past.
Key duping is the issue. It's a bad mechanic that needs to go. Like how they disabled VR item duping.
Already linked in a previous post.
Wowza, seven bots already disagreed with the idea concerning retiring rare capsules?
"You can't trust the client"
Any idea that is reliant on information from the client, will be defeated.
This is such a standard design pattern that I'd be surprised if they didn't do it that way
We are still running on 10-12 year old spagehetti code wrapped in a completely different platform to what it was built for. The final way to fix lag will be to rewrite the server on Lightship using all the knowledge gained from the PoGo redesign etc, but until that happens, any "It's easy to change" argument is difficult to make on the server architecture.
I'd assume that someone like @ofer2 is doing a 20% project to start building the components on a Lightship base (or I'd hope someone is), but any claims of how it should be because that's how you do it in 2022 are very inaccurate.
No, a screenshot was. There's more comments following it. And the reiteration was apparently required.
@Perringaiden I grok all of that. I can still think of multiple strategies for making it difficult for backpacks to replicate items.
Lock duplicated/KC items to the account, that would solve a lot of backpacks (unless they then turn into multis)
But then I could not give duplicated keys to my team mates, which I find very useful for portals that can only be visited once a year or even once in a lifetime.
i think that's the point. hard to reach portal shouldn't have unlimited keys whithout ever going there