Yeah, the stupid thing is that Spatial Audio is an OS feature, on iOS Airpods Pro and Max are capable, and were before those things were even created. It's so stupid that it's only available on those specific buds.
Yeah, I feel the same way. Since Prime came out, if you click on a portal, ADA Says "Resonator deployed", whilst you didn't, you opened portal view. Now there is audio overhaul and that same stupid bug is there. Sounds is supposed to bring immersion, this breaks it completely. And seeing as that bug has been there for years and stayed throughout this 'overhaul', I think it's safe to say sound is useless.
I've always found the in game sounds to be annoying and turned them off early on. Truth is while I don't know a huge number of players, I don't know any who have sound on.
Also, for the record, I didn't ask for sponsored items, did I?
That's what their sponsorship deals represented, because when it was just "Sponsored Locations" it didn't work. e.g. Jamba Juice and ZipCar.
The most important thing that should not proliferate in the Ingress philosophy is the portal key.
This is precisely the problem with Quantums. Aegis replicating was bad, mainly because Aegis were overpowered. If the AXA Shield had never been implemented, VR replication in capsules wouldn't have been a problem, but again, Sponsored Items unbalance the game precisely because they're designed to be overpowered.
This seems more like a "Niantic Partnership" than anything specific to Ingress. We're just the ones who get the initial rollout because we're the test bed for future games. I do hope Ingress sees some portion of any money provided though.
So, to answer the initial question, the simple answer is that we as players need to be willing to pay for the service that we benefit from. Until that mindset of "I'm not paying, it's a free game" stops, Ingress will continue to languish with insufficient development resources and marketing.
The two of the big things that they could implement relatively easily that would be worth buying for players, would be:
Single or Triple Use Kinetic Capsules, that run in parallel with the standard capsule (maximum of 4 at a time).
Expanded CORE subscriptions (+500 slots for every extra $5 per month, up to a maximum of 4x)
I always loved the sound, but the biggest issue I've had with Prime since it's development, is the inability to put the phone down and leave the game open, without it making sound.
There was a period before the recent spatial audio, where you could do that. They trimmed back the unnecessary stuff nicely, but then added spatial audio so that if you are near portals (which I almost always am) it's even noiser than it was.
For that reason the Sony Linkbuds sponsorship was a net negative for me.
I’ve been paying for 13 months, I’m still not completely sure if Niantic is meeting us halfway, yet. The money sure has heck hasn’t helped with their communication abilities? If anything, it’s become even worse.
Agreed, though I know there's "reasons" why it's become worse, but at the same time, Niantic should be keeping sufficient people in place to meet those communication responsibilities as well as the other responsibilities people are required to perform. CORE was supposed to be a way of beating the catch 22 of "Can't spend money until we get money, can't get money until we spend money" that Ingress is working under, but it feels like all it did was reduce the losses a bit.
I'd pay for some things. Cubes, certain badges, Battle Beacons, Frackers. (Like I bought the solstice badge thingy but not the summer solstice badge, coz buying it in winter was just bizarre). Also bought Blue snowflake, but not Icky Green one.
I'm not AGAINST spending money on Ingress. I buy stuff in store regularly. I spend a fortune on travel and equipment for the game. I do object though when despite paying, Niantic still do not engage with us and implement in game stuff that annoys the bejusus out of most players.
From your previous comments, it seems to me that you just want Pay to Win.
Nope, specifically don't want Pay to Win. But what I do want is for Ingress to survive. And for that the customers have to actually pay the business. I don't like them selling X8s in the store. I do like them selling R8s, because it's not even close to a "win button", but it's something that's worth buying regularly.
The experience in the real world creates a feeling for us when it is linked to digital data.
The paid badges don't make that much money either, and most could be removed without loss, because they have a low ROI.
You seem new here, but I've got a long history of pushing back against low ROI suggestions like "more avatars" or "paid color changes" or the horrible "Give me the redacted skin" etc. Ingress needs money, not hugs and they need to make that money using simple sales with regular resale on zero development. And it's a fine line between being worth paying for and paying for power. Things like Apex are good sales for newer players, but once they hit 16 the first time, they become less worthwhile. Frackers are another regular sale, or were when there was enough players for regular flash farms.
Single Use Kinetic Capsules are easy because the code already exists in PoGo and is portable because Pikmin has the same thing. CORE tiers are also easy because it's just more slots and more gear packs, and anyone claiming extra inventory is 'pay to win' doesn't understand how to "win" in Ingress.
So, lets look at your proposals:
More Events - Don't disagree. I have no idea why Niantic wants to restrict their events by only having one site (well I do, but it's a horrible reason that is distant from the average player's reality). However, events are complex and expensive to make so they need to have a significant charge associated per player, or they won't be profitable. Without that charge they become a loss, and too high and they're still a loss because no-one wants to pay.
Selling Medals - Single sale per player, artwork cost. These are not great unless they're very simple and the artwork is fast. Any development for "tracking" awarding them becomes far more expensive than any profit would be worth. Ingress has always had these medals, and if they're going to have them, selling them in the store is the best option to get the most sales (on cards at events is a horrible way if it's the exclusive way).
Sponsors - They don't work because no-one gives the sponsor any money. Circle K actually had a really good version of it at test sites going where you'd buy 2 bottles of Coke and get a small passcode. That drove sales to Circle K as well as giving people a small bit of gear. However, when they went to wide production, they got greedy of the zero cost, and changed the promotion to paying for a truckstop meal and machine soda, which no-one wanted. Other than that, every sponsor has failed to capitalize on the promotion. When was the last time you chose to use AXA as your insurance company, or change your phone provider to Softbank, or open a Union Bank account?
So your ideas might take into account the huggability, but they're not terribly viable from a business stand point, given that Niantic has already tried them all...
Not asking if you "would". Asking if you did. If you previously put your money where your mouth is (aside from single purchase medals etc). Because if not, there's no financial loss from Niantic putting them there, because you weren't paying already.
Single Use Kinetic Capsules are easy because the code already exists in PoGo and is portable because Pikmin has the same thing. CORE tiers are also easy because it's just more slots and more gear packs, and anyone claiming extra inventory is 'pay to win' doesn't understand how to "win" in Ingress.
You say that but:
native refresh mode was in Pogo 8 months before it made it to Ingress
Apple login has been in Ingress for years and they are still working on adding that to Pogo.
It doesn't seem like switching Ingress to Unity has actually made stuff easier/quicker to implement crossgame
We heard that on redacted once ingress switches to unity it will be so much easier having all niantic games run on the same engine.. yeah seems all we have is issues not solved today and we get stuff pokemon had six months ago..
Extra kinetics limited to common and rare is a no brainer... maybe niantic afraid of the pay2win comments ? but it would be a motivation to walk outside and get your gear.. maybe new unique recipes for those ? again why niantic says no to extra money i dont understand.. 🤨
That's about priorities. Native refresh rate is nice but it's not a feature that will bring a new player in, or make an older player reconsider quitting. It's something to make the experience of people who will continue playing, better.
Return on Investment (ROI) is super important when considering features, when the team is as small as the Ingress dev team. The things that will give the most bang (players retained, gained, cash influx etc) for the buck (development hours).
Single use kinetic capsules will be a high return on a low investment, as long as the player base doesn't start screaming "Pay to win!" at the hint of some sort of paid benefit.
Heavily forcing monetization isn't going to attract new players either... If you can't keep the current players happy (lag, Lightship issues, no communication,...), The only thing new players will see is bad reviews.
I don't disagree, but at the same time, those hard problems won't be solved if they can't have enough breathing room in terms of feature production, to be able to really get in and address them. We've seen what happens if the player base doesn't get a new toy every release or two. We're a mass of conflicting demands, and the only real way they can satisfy them all is more development resources, which Niantic won't give Ingress until it can prove it can cover the costs of them.
So people who truly want to see the game flourish, need to accept that we all need to start shouldering some of the cost, or accept the "small indie game" we've got.
Let's look at the truth. No one is going to change anything, because everything consistently brings a certain income. Brian and several dozen employees have enough money to pay their salaries from the sale of badges and other jewelry. Why change something in a well-working mechanism? Make viruses that would spread through the portal network or a third faction? What for? Firstly, it is costly and requires imagination, and on the other hand, it can anger those devoted fans of triangles, those Old Believers who do not want innovations in the game and bring in the lion's share of the income for Brian and his small team.
And the forum was abandoned by the company due to the fact that many players began to complain about bugs and cheats, which are full in our game, and the company does not need this. Why come up with a new complex system to combat cheaters, hire additional cyber security specialists if everything already brings a stable and pretty good income?
We dont know how good the income really is, core doesnt seem to have changed much its probably only a small income really vs how many % players actually support each month we can only guess. Also i wonder if the sales from niantic supply goes to the ingress team perhaps not ?
Comments
I would never buy an audio product for a game whose sound I muted for nearly 10 years.
Yeah, the stupid thing is that Spatial Audio is an OS feature, on iOS Airpods Pro and Max are capable, and were before those things were even created. It's so stupid that it's only available on those specific buds.
Yeah, I feel the same way. Since Prime came out, if you click on a portal, ADA Says "Resonator deployed", whilst you didn't, you opened portal view. Now there is audio overhaul and that same stupid bug is there. Sounds is supposed to bring immersion, this breaks it completely. And seeing as that bug has been there for years and stayed throughout this 'overhaul', I think it's safe to say sound is useless.
It was only on one Motorola phone
I've always found the in game sounds to be annoying and turned them off early on. Truth is while I don't know a huge number of players, I don't know any who have sound on.
Also, for the record, I didn't ask for sponsored items, did I?
That's what their sponsorship deals represented, because when it was just "Sponsored Locations" it didn't work. e.g. Jamba Juice and ZipCar.
The most important thing that should not proliferate in the Ingress philosophy is the portal key.
This is precisely the problem with Quantums. Aegis replicating was bad, mainly because Aegis were overpowered. If the AXA Shield had never been implemented, VR replication in capsules wouldn't have been a problem, but again, Sponsored Items unbalance the game precisely because they're designed to be overpowered.
This seems more like a "Niantic Partnership" than anything specific to Ingress. We're just the ones who get the initial rollout because we're the test bed for future games. I do hope Ingress sees some portion of any money provided though.
So, to answer the initial question, the simple answer is that we as players need to be willing to pay for the service that we benefit from. Until that mindset of "I'm not paying, it's a free game" stops, Ingress will continue to languish with insufficient development resources and marketing.
The two of the big things that they could implement relatively easily that would be worth buying for players, would be:
I always loved the sound, but the biggest issue I've had with Prime since it's development, is the inability to put the phone down and leave the game open, without it making sound.
There was a period before the recent spatial audio, where you could do that. They trimmed back the unnecessary stuff nicely, but then added spatial audio so that if you are near portals (which I almost always am) it's even noiser than it was.
For that reason the Sony Linkbuds sponsorship was a net negative for me.
“If you're not paying for the product, then you are the product."
Worked on me
Except that we've been horribly monetized and we're a hostile product to monetization, so it's not going very well.
I'm actually avoiding paying for items until the options to purchase vanish from the deploy and attack carousels.
Did you pay for items before those appeared?
I’ve been paying for 13 months, I’m still not completely sure if Niantic is meeting us halfway, yet. The money sure has heck hasn’t helped with their communication abilities? If anything, it’s become even worse.
Agreed, though I know there's "reasons" why it's become worse, but at the same time, Niantic should be keeping sufficient people in place to meet those communication responsibilities as well as the other responsibilities people are required to perform. CORE was supposed to be a way of beating the catch 22 of "Can't spend money until we get money, can't get money until we spend money" that Ingress is working under, but it feels like all it did was reduce the losses a bit.
From your previous comments, it seems to me that you just want Pay to Win.
However, many Ingress agents today are not so attracted to simple Pay to Win or commemorative medals.
Naturally, I don't find it appealing at all either.
That's because mere digital data has no value.
It is nothing more than a thing on a screen.
And even if you buy an old Anomaly medal on eBay, the player cannot talk about the experience of the Anomaly.
Of course, buying an Earth Day medal sold in the Ingress store without any experience will not create any feelings.
The experience in the real world creates a feeling for us when it is linked to digital data.
Your proposal does not take them into account at all.
I'd pay for some things. Cubes, certain badges, Battle Beacons, Frackers. (Like I bought the solstice badge thingy but not the summer solstice badge, coz buying it in winter was just bizarre). Also bought Blue snowflake, but not Icky Green one.
I'm not AGAINST spending money on Ingress. I buy stuff in store regularly. I spend a fortune on travel and equipment for the game. I do object though when despite paying, Niantic still do not engage with us and implement in game stuff that annoys the bejusus out of most players.
From your previous comments, it seems to me that you just want Pay to Win.
Nope, specifically don't want Pay to Win. But what I do want is for Ingress to survive. And for that the customers have to actually pay the business. I don't like them selling X8s in the store. I do like them selling R8s, because it's not even close to a "win button", but it's something that's worth buying regularly.
The experience in the real world creates a feeling for us when it is linked to digital data.
The paid badges don't make that much money either, and most could be removed without loss, because they have a low ROI.
You seem new here, but I've got a long history of pushing back against low ROI suggestions like "more avatars" or "paid color changes" or the horrible "Give me the redacted skin" etc. Ingress needs money, not hugs and they need to make that money using simple sales with regular resale on zero development. And it's a fine line between being worth paying for and paying for power. Things like Apex are good sales for newer players, but once they hit 16 the first time, they become less worthwhile. Frackers are another regular sale, or were when there was enough players for regular flash farms.
Single Use Kinetic Capsules are easy because the code already exists in PoGo and is portable because Pikmin has the same thing. CORE tiers are also easy because it's just more slots and more gear packs, and anyone claiming extra inventory is 'pay to win' doesn't understand how to "win" in Ingress.
So, lets look at your proposals:
More Events - Don't disagree. I have no idea why Niantic wants to restrict their events by only having one site (well I do, but it's a horrible reason that is distant from the average player's reality). However, events are complex and expensive to make so they need to have a significant charge associated per player, or they won't be profitable. Without that charge they become a loss, and too high and they're still a loss because no-one wants to pay.
Selling Medals - Single sale per player, artwork cost. These are not great unless they're very simple and the artwork is fast. Any development for "tracking" awarding them becomes far more expensive than any profit would be worth. Ingress has always had these medals, and if they're going to have them, selling them in the store is the best option to get the most sales (on cards at events is a horrible way if it's the exclusive way).
Sponsors - They don't work because no-one gives the sponsor any money. Circle K actually had a really good version of it at test sites going where you'd buy 2 bottles of Coke and get a small passcode. That drove sales to Circle K as well as giving people a small bit of gear. However, when they went to wide production, they got greedy of the zero cost, and changed the promotion to paying for a truckstop meal and machine soda, which no-one wanted. Other than that, every sponsor has failed to capitalize on the promotion. When was the last time you chose to use AXA as your insurance company, or change your phone provider to Softbank, or open a Union Bank account?
So your ideas might take into account the huggability, but they're not terribly viable from a business stand point, given that Niantic has already tried them all...
Not asking if you "would". Asking if you did. If you previously put your money where your mouth is (aside from single purchase medals etc). Because if not, there's no financial loss from Niantic putting them there, because you weren't paying already.
Yes I paid. Probably more than most :) And still paying but avoiding any superfluous purchases until they remove the carousel items.
You just give a little of your money to Niantic, just like that, "out of generosity," you will not become poor, and they will be pleased :)))
Why are you so stingy! Give them some money! :))
Niantic must be tired of hinting - well, give us some money. And you still don't notice! :(
@Perringaiden
Single Use Kinetic Capsules are easy because the code already exists in PoGo and is portable because Pikmin has the same thing. CORE tiers are also easy because it's just more slots and more gear packs, and anyone claiming extra inventory is 'pay to win' doesn't understand how to "win" in Ingress.
You say that but:
native refresh mode was in Pogo 8 months before it made it to Ingress
Apple login has been in Ingress for years and they are still working on adding that to Pogo.
It doesn't seem like switching Ingress to Unity has actually made stuff easier/quicker to implement crossgame
We heard that on redacted once ingress switches to unity it will be so much easier having all niantic games run on the same engine.. yeah seems all we have is issues not solved today and we get stuff pokemon had six months ago..
Extra kinetics limited to common and rare is a no brainer... maybe niantic afraid of the pay2win comments ? but it would be a motivation to walk outside and get your gear.. maybe new unique recipes for those ? again why niantic says no to extra money i dont understand.. 🤨
That's about priorities. Native refresh rate is nice but it's not a feature that will bring a new player in, or make an older player reconsider quitting. It's something to make the experience of people who will continue playing, better.
Return on Investment (ROI) is super important when considering features, when the team is as small as the Ingress dev team. The things that will give the most bang (players retained, gained, cash influx etc) for the buck (development hours).
Single use kinetic capsules will be a high return on a low investment, as long as the player base doesn't start screaming "Pay to win!" at the hint of some sort of paid benefit.
Unfortunately we all know that certain sects of the player base will cry “pay to win” or “easy mode” at the slightest of changes.
Limited time cosmetics is something that some players want. And requires little effort to do.
Heavily forcing monetization isn't going to attract new players either... If you can't keep the current players happy (lag, Lightship issues, no communication,...), The only thing new players will see is bad reviews.
The medals are to get CORE players to spend their CORE cmu instead of banking it up.
I don't disagree, but at the same time, those hard problems won't be solved if they can't have enough breathing room in terms of feature production, to be able to really get in and address them. We've seen what happens if the player base doesn't get a new toy every release or two. We're a mass of conflicting demands, and the only real way they can satisfy them all is more development resources, which Niantic won't give Ingress until it can prove it can cover the costs of them.
So people who truly want to see the game flourish, need to accept that we all need to start shouldering some of the cost, or accept the "small indie game" we've got.
Let's look at the truth. No one is going to change anything, because everything consistently brings a certain income. Brian and several dozen employees have enough money to pay their salaries from the sale of badges and other jewelry. Why change something in a well-working mechanism? Make viruses that would spread through the portal network or a third faction? What for? Firstly, it is costly and requires imagination, and on the other hand, it can anger those devoted fans of triangles, those Old Believers who do not want innovations in the game and bring in the lion's share of the income for Brian and his small team.
And the forum was abandoned by the company due to the fact that many players began to complain about bugs and cheats, which are full in our game, and the company does not need this. Why come up with a new complex system to combat cheaters, hire additional cyber security specialists if everything already brings a stable and pretty good income?
We dont know how good the income really is, core doesnt seem to have changed much its probably only a small income really vs how many % players actually support each month we can only guess. Also i wonder if the sales from niantic supply goes to the ingress team perhaps not ?