Portal Scanning - "Lightship 2022" Conference

MargariteDVilleMargariteDVille ✭✭✭✭
edited July 2022 in General

I culled the below from several "Lightship 2022" conference sessions - mostly "Using Lightship VPS" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDRR_RRNgzc&list=PLCyCMgj5D_z7rtq_6UamxxgMNNvEjoulK&index=2 (I'm in IT and study things to keep up with my field.)


This conference was to explain Lightship data to potential customers (app developers), who can:

1) interpret and enhance what their user's live CAMERA is seeing (ARDK aka Augmented Reality Developer Kit) - examples here: https://nianticlabs.com/blog/niantic-canneslions-2022/?hl=en

2) see WAYSPOTS (that we call portals) - explained to customers (developers) here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeqPJ47SXPY&list=PLCyCMgj5D_z7rtq_6UamxxgMNNvEjoulK&index=14 

3) use SCANS (VPS, aka Visual Positioning System) to identify what a Wayspot is, and to interact with it.

When we scan, we can see a "mesh" grid. That's all Niantic is saving. It's used as structure for later, when a user/gamer is using their phone camera. I think of the scan meshing as the chicken wire undergrid of a parade float. (Live camera images are the "papers" that go over the "chicken wire".)


Niantic gets VPS data (scans) mostly from players of their games. Secondly, from "surveyors", hired in some cities - places with (a) "substantial activity", and (b) app developers. (Surveyors can also nominate Wayspots.) Third, app developers can scan Wayspots themselves, using the Wayfarer app.

The "six key launch cities" (with surveyors) are: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, New York City, London, Tokyo. For example, when the Tower of London's moat was filled with flowers for the Queen's Jubilee - Niantic took lots of scans, so anyone going there later can experience what it looked like (using the right games).

That list is being expanded with: Anaheim, Santa Ana, Chicago, DC, Seattle, Nagoya, Kyoto, Singapore, Paris. Developers from Atlanta and Copenhagen asked if they could be included - Niantic said they, and others, are in the works for their next wave. See https://nianticlabs.com/blog/lightshipsummit/?hl=en

But see https://lightship.dev/products/vps/ - MOST places don't have any "VPS-activated" wayspots. That just means none have been scanned 80+ times. Niantic bragged that they have 42M total accepted scans (and 17M  wayspots).


The Lightship database is public data, free to app developers. Here are some things Niantic said about it:

  • Several times I heard that "VPS activated" wayspots have "80-100" scans, and "The more times a waypoint scanned, the better." 
  • Scanned data is accurate within a couple inches, 1.15 degrees - to actual location, not geopositioning of maps.
  • Developers can expect their games to interact with VPS data from 5 meters away from the wayspot. 
  • Lightship has scans in different times of day and year (for example with different shadows, snow, people walking by). So, the user's live camera can recognize waypoints anytime but night time.


They gave these tips for scanning:

  • For better accuracy: be closer, phone stable (not busy with other apps), and, it is affected by type of phone.
  • Users are encouraged to scan within 5m. (I've never heard this. Have you?)
  • The brighter the lighting, the faster you can move your camera when scanning.
  • Everyone is encouraged to upload from WiFi.


Q: In the future, will you have scans with low light / night?

A: Depends on the ability of future cameras.


Q: How long after scanning can we see it in our apps? A:

  • First, scans are filtered by system. It estimates how good the scan is.. bright, blurry, private, in car, etc. (Images from users can be noisy. User data comes with challenges.)
  • Next, the software stiches them together.
  • Last, it's available for apps (customers) to use. Usually in 4 business days.


Q: What frequency is the map updated? 

A: The beauty of user scans - we get scans every day, can detect when changes happen. There are ways to get data from users of the system.


Q: Can someone drop things at a Wayspot, for someone else to pick up? Specifically, a music app developer wants to let someone drop an mp3 that someone else can pick up and listen. 

A: Yes. (Niantic didn't mention that Ingress has had that ability for 9 years.) 


Q: If two wayspots are close together (maybe touching), can you consolidate overlapping scans? 

A: Yes we do

Post edited by MargariteDVille on

Comments

  • ZeroHecksGivenZeroHecksGiven ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022

    Was out at some property I own. Forgot a tape measure and needed to measure a window opening to replace a window that was cracked. Looking around for something of standard size so I could at least get a rough number. Remembered I had an app that I could use to scan the window opening and then get measurements from that. I was able to scan the entire building (12x24) in under five minutes and had a model in under 10 minutes that I was able to get pretty accurate measurements from. The app I used suggests a 5m distance and it shows a similar grid pattern as I’m scanning.

    All that being said, it’s surprising they need 80+ scans for portals to become VPS activated and I’ve definitely done a few portals in my hood over 100 times that aren’t showing up on that map. If I can make a model from one 3 minute video, I’m surprised they need 30+ minutes of video.


    Anyways, would be lovely to actually get agents excited about this data. I’m more or less done scanning unless I see something unique AND its got the little squares around it. I think if agents could see something, in-game, it would really rally some folks to start scanning certain statues and buildings in their towns.


  • jontebulajontebula ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can we see the first beta of the new 3D map in Ingress Prime 2023?

    @NianticBrian @NianticThia

  • MargariteDVilleMargariteDVille ✭✭✭✭

    @jontebula Do you have suggestions for situations where you'd switch from the Ingress scanner to your camera, and have 3D interactions thru your camera that affect the game? How would that work with the game concept that only some people are able to see the portal network, and it's a "secret agent" kind of thing? I've tried to think of something that would fit with the game premise, but haven't come up with it.

  • starwortstarwort ✭✭✭✭✭

    For better accuracy: be closer, phone stable (not busy with other apps),

    Phone is always going to be busy - Ingress is running!

  • GrogyanGrogyan ✭✭✭✭✭

    The amount of actual gameplay features added to Ingress currently in development, that use this VPS is pretty small.


    But it is there, and will be rolled out in Q4 this year.


    The current problem is that due to Niantic not being forthcoming about said features, there is little incentive. Brian and the team tried to make it a sub-game. Though few actually play the sub-game.

    It is reasonable to expect that the Wayfarer system should be updated to require scan data as part of the approval process. Thereby instantly enabled VPS wayspots.

  • mortuusmortuus ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022

    my guess is VPS wont come out this year as all portals needs to be VPS ready so not sure they will make it before end of year who knows.. not long left for the 10 year anniversary whatever they have planned for that.

  • joecainjoecain ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coming in Q4! Sounds like a roadmap to me.


    The day niantic requires scanning just to submit a portal means no more from me.

  • MoogModularMoogModular ✭✭✭✭✭

    Niantic said Q4 regardless of the database. That's when the Wayfarer app will be launched.

    Again, do you read posts before commenting? I'm legit asking because you ignored what was stated in the quoted post.

  • Otrera35Otrera35 ✭✭✭✭

    Ingress Prime Portal Scanning is almost similar to scanning items you purchased in the self-checkout section of Walmart or Target. The only difference is in Ingress Prime, you get nothing while you get the physical goods from the store.

  • spiesrspiesr ✭✭

    We will NEVER reach a point where ALL portals a VPS ready.

    There are portals that have been in game for nearly a decade now that nobody has even uploaded a photo for, much less dozens of scans.

    There are portals who's subjects' shape and/or size is such that nothing functional will ever be able to be made from their scans.

  • joecainjoecain ✭✭✭✭✭

    Come on, moog, even you aren't naive enough to use phrases like "will be launched" where "might be launched" is more appropriate.

  • MargariteDVilleMargariteDVille ✭✭✭✭

    The Wayfarer app is already launched. Just not for us. It's for app developers (customers) to scan things they want "VPS-activated" on Lightship. If it isn't already a wayspot, they can attach scans to a csv with nomination information, and the Niantic team will review it and upload if they approve - within 2 business days. I got the feeling they're going to add edit ability to the app, before they allow nominating.


    I like to take walks on trails or in air-conditioned shopping malls - with Ingress open of course. I'm trying to do a couple scans each walk, until I've scanned them all. It's kinda fun to try to actually locate specific things. Gets me to interact with the world in a different way.

    However, once I've scanned it once, I see no point in going back and getting more. ...OK, maybe 7 or 13, if it'll get me battle beacon interaction during a mini-anomoly weekend. Or maybe I'll just buy some beacons.

  • ZeroHecksGivenZeroHecksGiven ✭✭✭✭✭

    Until I get a commitment from Niantic that Ingress will be seeing scanned wayspots in-game, I'm only doing them very randomly. I'd rather buy battle beacons at this point than continue bolstering a companies database that can't give their "free workers" the courtesy of a little communication.

  • Otrera35Otrera35 ✭✭✭✭

    The question is if Niantic within itself and its chain of command do communicate with each other. It's just a reflection of what is happening with the company itself.

  • ZeroHecksGivenZeroHecksGiven ✭✭✭✭✭

    i have to imagine that’s not far from the truth. A brief look at their Glassdoor reviews sheds a little light into company culture.

Sign In or Register to comment.