Why the 20m proximity rule for portals needs to be reduced or removed



  • PkmnTrainerJPkmnTrainerJ ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pokémon GO will show all the POI that are on the system when going to submit a new Wayspot. Pokémon GO Wayspots are marked as the PokéStop symbol.

    Then the Wayfarer Pin marks any POI that are “used in other Niantic games”. This includes anything that is only Lightship, and would thus be marked as a duplicate by reviewers.

    The same feature is due in January/February 2022 according to this.

    So any day now?

  • gazzas89gazzas89 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've had w things accepted that went straight to the lightship and as far as I could tell they weren't on the pogo submission map

  • You could scan stuff instead with all the extra free time? 😀

  • phthoruthphthoruth ✭✭✭✭

    I have several issues with the 20 meter rule.

    1. live 'wayspots' that are not live portals don't show in-game, so you don't know that its a waste of time to submit the portal. (duplicate). When you get a reject based on 'duplicate', it is for a wayspot you can't see in-game or in intel.com, but the wayspot now has the rejected wayspot art added.
    2. reviewers can move the location of a wayspot as they approve it, causing it to go live as a wayspot in the wrong location, and be too close to an existing wayspot.
    3. It takes time to submit and review... why even allow a wayspot to be submitted if the location is too close to an existing wayspot/portal?
  • KhatreKhatre ✭✭✭✭✭

    because nomination are not only for ingress, and the 20m rule only applies in ingress.

    Pogo nomination shows all existing POI iin lightship DB i am sure this feature will come to ingress or that nominations will be removed from all game and go in the wayfarer app

  • tp235tp235 ✭✭✭✭

    In Ingress, the problem is not so much the 20m rule itself, but rather the fact that high-quality wayspots that are worthy of their original purpose are hidden by low-quality portals.

    Especially recently there has been an increase of really crappy portals by players of different games and Wayfarer teams who don't understand the standards the best.

    It would be ridiculous if the most important pioneer statue in the area would not be a portal because of the presence of a non-sponsored convenience store sign as a portal.

    The damage to the Ingres team that migrated the portal database is incalculable.

    Because as a result of giving it away, their game will be destroyed.

  • PkmnTrainerJPkmnTrainerJ ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’d love it if the rule went away again.

    I don’t see there being an issue of having a few Portals close to each other.

    As for the duplicates map @Khatre mentions, that was planned for the Wayfarer team to add in “Summer” 2022. So any day now.

  • KarM3LKarM3L ✭✭✭✭

    20m would probably be about right a, it was constantly implemented, b, there were ways to make the underlying maps/pois more consitant with the real world, ie someone to control which poi is a portal....

  • RTLQuietuSRTLQuietuS ✭✭✭
    edited December 2023

    IMO the gameplay way to solve this in ingress, is to merge portals that are 'too dense' (<5 metres)

    The idea of an Ingress farm is a persistent idea, and a boon to the game.

    Agents plan BBQs, pub nights, family days at the playground and all sorts at these portal dense locations.

    High density also discourages car-gress, as it's much safer and efficient to capture/hack portals without too much down time.

    So, rather then reject dense portals, if multiple POI were instead merged, (with a visible bonus being applied, let's call these portals Volatile to match previous ingress lore) you could have increased hack output, or increased defence, or increased linking range instead.

    The only downside would be low AP gains, less opportunity to microfield / layer.

    Which you would then trade for having higher strategic value to upgrade, a location for agents who aren't as coordinated or in communities to upgrade naturally, and less keys to recharge or manage.

    Maybe, rather then merging, you have the POI still visible on the map, but be branching/fractures of the portal network and have a parent portal that they delegate ownership to.

    OTOH: maybe it's time for a completely new feature. First Saturdays have portal hunts. Maybe too dense portals could turn into "Intel drops" that need to be found and scanned / photographed.

    TLDR: current portals should be "gyms", too dense submissions should be passive bonuses or "stops"

  • MoogModularMoogModular ✭✭✭✭✭

    The density is much different in Ingress and we have a "disambigation" menu for items close together. Pokémon Go is at a higher view level.

  • MJ78MJ78 ✭✭✭

    'Why the 20m proximity rule for portals needs to be reduced or removed'.

    No it doesn't.

    It is bad enough in some places where literally one portal is directly on top of another, before the 20m rule was brought in. We don't need any more like this.

  • phthoruthphthoruth ✭✭✭✭

    I dont understand why portals that are more than 20m away from other live portals can't go live?

  • MoogModularMoogModular ✭✭✭✭✭

    and you know who put them on top of each other? Niantic.

  • MirthmakerMirthmaker ✭✭✭✭

    I am not a fan of the two portals on top of each other shenanigans and your fingers are too large to press one portal or the other and it gets far worse when you are picking up leftovers from red portals. 20m is a necessary evil to avoid that.

  • GrogyanGrogyan ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just had the same discussion on the wayfarer forum.

    Missions that are dependent on certain wayspots means that removing a wayspot for whatever reason, may mean that visitors who want to do a lovely mission series suddenly find themselves with a broken mission banners.

    Been there multiple times and have lots of forever broken banners.

    While removing a wayspot in ingress may mean problems in other games.

    The Mission system really needs overhauling.

    Other games have other proximity rules, and have faced issues where wayspots aren't appearing.

    I would prefer the proximity rules across all games to be a minimum of 5m instead of 20m

  • MoogModularMoogModular ✭✭✭✭✭

    It was already solved in 2015 with the disambiguation pop up.

  • starwortstarwort ✭✭✭✭✭

    The disambiguation pop-up is a necessary evil, but it's really annoying when you are on the bus trying to hack or capture every portal. Much better to have portals spaced far enough that you can click on one unambiguously.

  • MoogModularMoogModular ✭✭✭✭✭

    You kind of answering your own demise...if you weren't on the bus then you would be able to get both.

  • phthoruthphthoruth ✭✭✭✭

    Removed portals update the missions so they have one less portal. e.g. 5 portals instead of 6.

    They are still doable. The original author can also update the banner to add new portals.

  • phthoruthphthoruth ✭✭✭✭

    Can anyone explain why portals that are NOT live but are within 20m prevent new portals from going live?

    I checked gps coordinates of live portals vs a portal that has not gone live and they are more than 20m

  • GrogyanGrogyan ✭✭✭✭✭
  • phthoruthphthoruth ✭✭✭✭

    Missions with missing portals work for me. If youre having issues with missions you might want to report a bug.

  • phthoruthphthoruth ✭✭✭✭

    correct. They typically go live the next day after being 'decided'.

    The only reason I'm aware of for a portal not going live is that it is closer than 20m from another live portal.

    But there must be more to it than that, because I've seen at least one 'decided' portal not go live that is further than 20m from any live portals.

  • GrogyanGrogyan ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ordinarily yes, but in some cases they don't.

    It isn't a bug, but an oversight and limitation of the Missions system.

    It is one issue of thousands THAT Brian is aware of and "will get to it eventually"

  • tp235tp235 ✭✭✭✭

    Considering the current prime scanner, 20 meters is an approximate eligibility.

    The reason is that simply reducing or expanding the distance limit will not solve the problem, since pinching in and out changes the description and the viewpoint moves as if in 3D.

    If we were to compromise this part of the solution, we could change the object of the proximity rule from a way spot to an ingress portal.

  • phthoruthphthoruth ✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if 20m comes from VPS having a range of 20m?

    Before the multiselector and distance limits, it took some skill to hack 2 portals, or to pick up capsules right on a portal. I kinda wish we could go back to that, because the multiselector shows items and portals that are out of range, when there really is only 1 valid option, and invariably the item you want to pick is further than short fingers can reach. If I'm riding and the multi selector comes up, I abort and try from a different angle to avoid the multiselector.

    My point is, with regular hacks, its not that hard to rotate and hack from a different angle when 2+ portals are very close.

    But there may be a technical issue with calibration/scanning if 2 portals are in the same mesh area.

    We wouldnt want OC hacks to require being even closer.

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