Reintroduction of 20 Meter Rule and the New Problems for Missions & Nominating New Things

msz21msz21 ✭✭✭
edited March 2022 in General

A day and a half ago we had a massive sync of Portals that went live in Ingress which also resulted in some new issues that came with this sync. With this sync, the 20 meter rule between Ingress Portals has returned meaning you can not have new portals go live within 20 meters of other existing Portals. This normally wouldn't be a problem since that's how things had worked for years before the change to utilizing Lightship as the core system for all the waypoints.

This new sync still approved the Waypoints that don't show up in Ingress and had them on the showcase even though they don't appear in any of the Niantic Games. Here's an example, this nomination (the first picture) which is in the showcase for Houston at the moment has been approved for several days but with the latest sync did not show up in Ingress (second picture) because it is within 20 meters of existing portals.

The particular problem which I mentioned before isn't really a big issue, however when you are attempting to nominate in Ingress now, none of these missing Waypoints that are Lightship only show up when attempting to submit any nomination with Ingress now. This means that when anyone is attempting to submit any nomination, there is a high chance that you can be submitting a duplicate if you are submitting within any portal dense area since not all the Waypoints that currently exist in Niantic Lightship show in Ingress when nominating.

This leads to the next problem which is when making a new Mission. Thinking that if all the Waypoints are showing up in Lightship, I thought maybe when I am creating my new missions which I have been working on would still get to see these Lightship only Waypoints. I was hoping they would mimic the old Field Trip POI that we would see with the Mission Authoring website but none of the lightship only waypoints appeared here meaning that I couldn't continue the mission in that area due to a lack of Waypoints. At the same time this also meant that there was no place for any Ingress Agent to verify if a certain Waypoint already exists in Lightship.

Post edited by msz21 on


  • msz21msz21 ✭✭✭

    @Noctarion Actually weirdly enough Niantic did clearly say that the 20 meter rule is intentional for Ingress on the Wayfarer forum. If you would like, I can find the source statement too.

    My problem is still the aftermath of the changes and I would still like to utilize said Waypoints in Missions or at least see them on some type of Map before I nominate more things.

  • NoctarionNoctarion ✭✭✭

    Like intentional to exist? I'm referring to the specific situation of it disappearing and then being implemented again, did they speak about that? Would you please show that to me?

  • msz21msz21 ✭✭✭

    @Noctarion Its part of the recent release notes for Ingress where Thia specifically says its intended.

  • KarM3LKarM3L ✭✭✭✭

    Yes but it disappeared, and @Noctarion question was about acknowledgement of if disappearing....... not its CURRENT existence

  • KarM3LKarM3L ✭✭✭✭

    All sorts of pois, that are 'to close' for <whatever> have been added to the database, since submissions were re-introduced, the beta of hpwu made great use of those poi at one point, it was treasure trove of hidden pois....

    I'm not sure that using the full wayfare database for Ingress missions would be wise, probably about time they ditched fieldtrip pois actually.....

    Missions and mission creator need a overhaul....

    The full lightship database has always had pois invisible to games, and is why wayfarer needs its own app, with the ability to list all nearby pois etc.....

  • As far as I know (and our community tries to keep a close eye on changes in portal mechanics), there have been no reports that the inoperative state of the "20 meter rule" is a bug and work is underway to restore it. Niantic has simply remained silent.

  • mortuusmortuus ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2022

    Niantic never said they got rid of the 20m rule, agents just oneday noticed how portals went live closer then 20m for some reason which wouldnt been possible normaly.

  • ZeroHecksGivenZeroHecksGiven ✭✭✭✭✭

    remained silent until they stopped syncing poi and people were asking what's up, then it was a typical corporate response saying, we're looking into why sync stopped...

  • msz21msz21 ✭✭✭

    Honestly any time Niantic makes a database issue where things go live that shouldn't have due to parameters being modified, I don't really worry about it.

    I am more worried about seeing duplicates when reviewing that already exist as Waypoints than parameters Niantic can change at their discretion. I also want to use all said Waypoints in Missions at least since I actually wanted to create mission themes based on the locations that have such packed Wayspoints.

  • KarM3LKarM3L ✭✭✭✭

    I like the easy Agreements duplicates create, but would prefer If they were visable and e evan able to be scanned without being in any set game...

  • KarM3LKarM3L ✭✭✭✭

    Probably cause it doesn't have any relevance to your question.......

  • Well, for the butterfly sidewalk example, you could submit it on the far side (SW corner) of the butterfly, and it should fit the 20 meter rule... NO, wait! Now that location would be a duplicate to the invisible accepted wayspot that only reviewers can see.

    THAT'S the biggest problem, I think.

    I love the mission idea! @msz21

  • msz21msz21 ✭✭✭

    I honestly can't wait till Niantic creates a proper Mission Infrastructure team. With them developing a Second Sunday Medal, I have high hopes that they will develop it but I really want them to be aware of the new issues that pop up in conjunction with the Lightship system they now utilize. It really needs to be a synergistic relationship where they don't break each others systems.

  • Also sometimes it just takes a month or two after approval before they pop up, we’ve observed this locally quite a few times in Florida

  • PkmnTrainerJPkmnTrainerJ ✭✭✭✭✭

    I saw a reply on here and thought it may have been @NianticBrian saying they’d considered the 20m rule and reduced it to 10m/15m. No dice. 🎲

  • ZeroHecksGivenZeroHecksGiven ✭✭✭✭✭

    Had an issue popped up recently that’s pretty frustrating. Got a wayspot approved, but ‘lo and behold, it was 19m away from another wayspot. Luckily the existing wayspot was a playground and I put in an edit to move it a few meters to the other side of the toys. One might think this would open up the newly approved wayspot (a basketball court) to find its way into Ingress and other games. Well, doesn’t apparently work. So now there is this basketball court in lightship land and any future wayspots will be rejected because it will be seen as a duplicate. Wasted time…

  • NysyrNysyr ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2022

    I had a spotlighted submission that was too close to a current PoI to go live in Ingress; what I'm curious about is if the PoI blocking it is corrected in position and moved outside that 20m, will the new PoI go live?

    Personally I'd like to see a system put in that allows high quality (with Nia review) PoIs go live with overriding the 20m rule.

  • ZeroHecksGivenZeroHecksGiven ✭✭✭✭✭

    In my experience, no. Which is what I posted about in the post above yours. Super frustrating to say the least.

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