I strongly direct you to maintain 90 seconds, and to represent support for 90 seconds as laziness is flat out wrong. Many players benefit from the 90 seconds to take the next action.
I also have a very strong statement to make to Niantic officials: any change from 90 seconds will be a disappointment to many active users. I strongly believe that. Please do not change the time to longer than 90 seconds. I am very strongly convinced that the current setting of 90 seconds is what many active users want. Please review the change from 90 seconds.
While I agree that the 5 minute timer would be 'better' for the game, to encourage:
More movement between portals
People using more than a single portal with dozens of layers
People actually walking instead of planting at a location
I honestly think that there's enough "COVID only" new players that would be unwilling or unable to adapt to the longer cooldown, which would be a net loss for the game's playerbase.
I don't like retaining the change, but I think it's necessary to avoid another 'mass die-off' of players like the change to Prime did.
No, they don't. They work just fine, and have worked just fine the past 2 years. There is no need to change anything.
I don't get why we are discussing this again, how can anyone be for increasing the hack timer, the only reason I can think of is they no longer play and are trolling active users. Because how can you be for the linking/fielding under fields but be against hacking every 90 seconds. SMH.
As far as I'm concerned the 90 second cooldown is a massive quality of life improvement for the game. Using gear is fun. Acquiring gear is toil. Shifting the balance away from toil and toward fun almost certainly increases engagement.
"Just walk to another portal" may not be feasible depending on where you are and what you're trying to accomplish.
This. Like many other aspects of the game, it all evolved. Why we would want to go back in time and move back in regards to improvements made is beyond me.
this whole time, not one person made a viable argument as to why it should go back to 5 minutes.
and no, “because it was that way” or “because the game is too easy” are no valid argument.
It's a game mechanic, like inventory limit. The decision of whether 90s or 5 minutes, or one second is appropriate, is a design decision rather than a "Prove me wrong".
Because like inventory limit, there are good reasons for things in games.
It's not meant to be simple, or easy, or trivial. Games are required to have challenges, or they just become bland actions. But as I said above, this change is probably better to stay because people have gotten used to it. It's not a good idea to change design repeatedly, and this one has already changed in a way that people have 'moved on'.
If it had been reverted soon after, like a month or two, it would have been fine, but they essentially "changed the design" by leaving it this way for so long.
Since this topic is brought up again, I disagree that 90 seconds should be a permanent feature. The reason why we had this cool down reduction was due to covid outbreak. My assumption was that niantic trying to discourage gathering of groups and traveling outside for gear. (They previously increased the hack count to 16 per portal previously before reverting back to 4)
However I understand it will be hard to adjust back to the usual 5 mins cool down, hence 2.5 - 3 mins will be a good middle ground should niantic decides to increase it again.
@Perringaiden Ingress doesn't really have challenges in the way that I typically think of them-- you're not going through levels collecting items and eluding or beating the baddies in order to beat the big bad boss. Ingress is much more like a semi-competitive Tinkertoy game where you acquire components and then use them to build and reinforce structures, and also acquire items to destroy structures built by the opposing faction. To a large extent the building and destruction are their own rewards.
Obviously there will always be work done to farm the components you need to build or destroy, but with rare exceptions there is no particular challenge or interest to that work... it's a repetitive mechanical process. The interesting part of the game is figuring out how you're going to put the toys together to build something cool.
I'm not arguing for bottomless bags of wooden hubs and spokes, but building stuff with the toys is inherently more fun than acquiring them. Shifting the balance of play back toward the more boring elements just doesn't seem like a win to me.
I've read and thought about this a few different times over the years.
If it comes to a community vote, my vote is to 90s being permanent. If it goes up from there the MOST I'd ever want to wait between hacks is 2m30s.
5m is just like pogo. Drive by,spin once and keep going. Ingress is about actually Interacting with portals more often. Yes HS/MH does quicken these things, but more often than not is better to not have to use those mods [unless CHS cause ya didn't get that one key from the first hack]
We have already seen with the change in another game (80m access distance) that game imbalance is a departure from Niantic's philosophy.
Niantic and Niantic only are the ones who can speak about their philosophy. What the hell kind of imbalance did that even achieve besides wordcruft of "I don't want 90 seconds cooldown" because you really haven't explained your points.
How would it mess up the game balance? Both factions are able to hack and acquire items at a faster pace. If anything, it provides more of a reason to engage in the game and explore because they would hit cooldown less often.
The burnout would happen at the same number of hacks. The 4 hour burnout is still the same. There's been more ways to overcome the portal burnout even with modding the portal.
You say philosophy when you're ignoring gameplay additions that have provided ways to reset the cooldown timer and allow a portal to be hacked more. Even before the pandemic existed.
Specifically, having faster and easier access to a given portal's keys, results in people ignoring 90% of the portals and just farming one portal for massive layers over and over. Almost like the issues people keep complaining about.
When the cooldown was higher, it was far more common for people to get a key or two from a glyph hack, then move to the next portal. Before More Glyph hacks, it was even more common to see stitching fields.
Comments
I strongly direct you to maintain 90 seconds, and to represent support for 90 seconds as laziness is flat out wrong. Many players benefit from the 90 seconds to take the next action.
I also have a very strong statement to make to Niantic officials: any change from 90 seconds will be a disappointment to many active users. I strongly believe that. Please do not change the time to longer than 90 seconds. I am very strongly convinced that the current setting of 90 seconds is what many active users want. Please review the change from 90 seconds.
Thank you very much.
Hack. Get moving. And then return 5 minutes later to hack again. And so forth.
As far as I am concerned bring back the 5 min cooldown. Ingress should return as much as possible to it's origin.
How did this get so many likes in less than 12 hrs?
Let's just remove power cubes, portal mods, and everything else so it can return to its origin which never was a point to stay at
Any reason? Cause there are a much more pros to being 90 seconds than there is being 5 mins, but much more cons for 5 minutes than there is 90 seconds
While I agree that the 5 minute timer would be 'better' for the game, to encourage:
I honestly think that there's enough "COVID only" new players that would be unwilling or unable to adapt to the longer cooldown, which would be a net loss for the game's playerbase.
I don't like retaining the change, but I think it's necessary to avoid another 'mass die-off' of players like the change to Prime did.
As a basic rule, the 90 second cooldown should be eliminated and restored in the future.
At the very least, the current 90 second cooldown has nearly extinguished the value of the very rare heat sink.
This is not a good thing for game balance.
We have already seen with the change in another game (80m access distance) that game imbalance is a departure from Niantic's philosophy.
The Ingress team and our Ingress agents should not make that mistake.
We should go back to Niantic's philosophy.
The Ingress team, Vanguard, and Ambassadors should discuss what the appropriate cooldown seconds should be.
My personal opinion is that even if the cooldown is shortened, 3 minutes is the limit.
It should not be shortened beyond that.
Yes if 90sec become permanent they will need to re balance how heatsinks works then.
They would need to reduce burnout time to keep them useful (No stacking bonus)
Common = 3hrs
Rare = 2hrs
Very Rare = 1hr
No, they don't. They work just fine, and have worked just fine the past 2 years. There is no need to change anything.
I don't get why we are discussing this again, how can anyone be for increasing the hack timer, the only reason I can think of is they no longer play and are trolling active users. Because how can you be for the linking/fielding under fields but be against hacking every 90 seconds. SMH.
27sec cd + fracker on 13th scan is awesome to farm anchors keys.
i don't get why people want to get back to sit on a portal 15 minutes with nothing else to do just to hack 4 times
That would become super difficult to track/manage, unless it became visible on the portal. Which I would totally encourage.
Just leave it as it is? I don't see a huge problem.
As far as I'm concerned the 90 second cooldown is a massive quality of life improvement for the game. Using gear is fun. Acquiring gear is toil. Shifting the balance away from toil and toward fun almost certainly increases engagement.
"Just walk to another portal" may not be feasible depending on where you are and what you're trying to accomplish.
This. Like many other aspects of the game, it all evolved. Why we would want to go back in time and move back in regards to improvements made is beyond me.
this whole time, not one person made a viable argument as to why it should go back to 5 minutes.
and no, “because it was that way” or “because the game is too easy” are no valid argument.
To keep 90sec cooldown time, I have started collecting signatures. If you agree with it, please sign the petition!
Thank you a lot!
「[Ingress] keep 90sec cooldown」 https://t.co/7bHK6q2kUW via @change_jp
I mean, I did.
It's a game mechanic, like inventory limit. The decision of whether 90s or 5 minutes, or one second is appropriate, is a design decision rather than a "Prove me wrong".
So, inventory limit increased (and
shouldcould still, because media, a factor of 1000 more portals, etc).the past YEARS, we had 90 second cooldown and it has had no negative impact on Ingress at all. If anything, it has had a positive impact.
so why hold on to a design decision that was made almost 10 years ago.
No to inventory. Please do a separate topic if you want to open up that box :)
I'm not saying they should increase inventory. (It's a possible solution, but so are media lockers, more key lockers, etc.)
Ignore that point :D
Because like inventory limit, there are good reasons for things in games.
It's not meant to be simple, or easy, or trivial. Games are required to have challenges, or they just become bland actions. But as I said above, this change is probably better to stay because people have gotten used to it. It's not a good idea to change design repeatedly, and this one has already changed in a way that people have 'moved on'.
If it had been reverted soon after, like a month or two, it would have been fine, but they essentially "changed the design" by leaving it this way for so long.
That is 100 times more OP than the current 90 sec cooldown
Since this topic is brought up again, I disagree that 90 seconds should be a permanent feature. The reason why we had this cool down reduction was due to covid outbreak. My assumption was that niantic trying to discourage gathering of groups and traveling outside for gear. (They previously increased the hack count to 16 per portal previously before reverting back to 4)
However I understand it will be hard to adjust back to the usual 5 mins cool down, hence 2.5 - 3 mins will be a good middle ground should niantic decides to increase it again.
@Perringaiden Ingress doesn't really have challenges in the way that I typically think of them-- you're not going through levels collecting items and eluding or beating the baddies in order to beat the big bad boss. Ingress is much more like a semi-competitive Tinkertoy game where you acquire components and then use them to build and reinforce structures, and also acquire items to destroy structures built by the opposing faction. To a large extent the building and destruction are their own rewards.
Obviously there will always be work done to farm the components you need to build or destroy, but with rare exceptions there is no particular challenge or interest to that work... it's a repetitive mechanical process. The interesting part of the game is figuring out how you're going to put the toys together to build something cool.
I'm not arguing for bottomless bags of wooden hubs and spokes, but building stuff with the toys is inherently more fun than acquiring them. Shifting the balance of play back toward the more boring elements just doesn't seem like a win to me.
I've read and thought about this a few different times over the years.
If it comes to a community vote, my vote is to 90s being permanent. If it goes up from there the MOST I'd ever want to wait between hacks is 2m30s.
5m is just like pogo. Drive by,spin once and keep going. Ingress is about actually Interacting with portals more often. Yes HS/MH does quicken these things, but more often than not is better to not have to use those mods [unless CHS cause ya didn't get that one key from the first hack]
We have already seen with the change in another game (80m access distance) that game imbalance is a departure from Niantic's philosophy.
Niantic and Niantic only are the ones who can speak about their philosophy. What the hell kind of imbalance did that even achieve besides wordcruft of "I don't want 90 seconds cooldown" because you really haven't explained your points.
How would it mess up the game balance? Both factions are able to hack and acquire items at a faster pace. If anything, it provides more of a reason to engage in the game and explore because they would hit cooldown less often.
The burnout would happen at the same number of hacks. The 4 hour burnout is still the same. There's been more ways to overcome the portal burnout even with modding the portal.
You say philosophy when you're ignoring gameplay additions that have provided ways to reset the cooldown timer and allow a portal to be hacked more. Even before the pandemic existed.
Frog in a pot! Increase it by 1 second a day till back to normal and nobody will notice!
Haha just kidding.
And after 210 days, Niantic will have forgotten, and the time will keep ticking upwards… 😂
Specifically, having faster and easier access to a given portal's keys, results in people ignoring 90% of the portals and just farming one portal for massive layers over and over. Almost like the issues people keep complaining about.
When the cooldown was higher, it was far more common for people to get a key or two from a glyph hack, then move to the next portal. Before More Glyph hacks, it was even more common to see stitching fields.