Rapid hacking, I do it regularly, especially when I'm waiting for someone and don't have much time hacking. Or it's middle of winter now, standing in the freezing cold is not fun in the slightest, so being able to do 4 hacks in quick succession with vr heat sinks is a great heat saver.
I would point out though, making the game slow and amd pointlessly time consuming for the sake of 1 item (well 3) is not a good argument, the heat syncs could be changed to suit, like they could make mods hacked from a portal be the level of heat sync you used more likely to drop
It decreases the cooldown time further and it is very helpful when you are in a hurry to get those keys. Not everyone can get a good RNG and end up with 3 keys after hacking. Still trying to find a way to delay the time and get the mobile number of the potential date, Mr. 5 minute cooldown Cassanova?
All this (cooldown, 2x L7 resos and 65 AP recharge) really make this game easier, but easier to everyone. If I can't build a L6 portal by myself or have to wait 5min between hacks we all get less material, except those who have extra spoofing accounts. But if I have less material, or i only get 10 AP for a recharge, then I certainly won't need the 500 extra from CORE. The main reason I pay for the core is the extra space I got from it.
Just adding my name to the “please leave cool down at 90 seconds” list.
I was actually surprised it was 90 seconds as for some reason I’ve been assuming it was 150 for the past year and a half. 5 mins would be unbearable now.
I don't understand the “what’s the point of hear sinks” argument. Ok, maybe for your style of gameplay and portal density you don’t need heat sinks, but I certainly do. I am constantly short on them, especially very rares.
I will also point out that in some places it’s -30 C today. There’s nothing easy about 90 s cooldown in a deep northern winter.
At the end of the day, it’s the 4 hack un-modded limit that limits abuse of the lower cooldown.
If they decide to go up to 2.5 mins (or, shudder, 5) please at least allow a guaranteed 1 key for a successful “more” glyph.
Extra idea if cooldown is increased: allow a “key only” glyph that cools in 90s.
"have to wait 5min between hacks we get less material"
Umm... What? No. You don't get less material if you wait between hacks for 90s vs 300s. That's RNG and you'd get the same amount of gear at the cost of significantly higher wait time between each cooldown. What you also get is less patient and progressively more tired of the useless, endless waiting. This has already been said before, and I will say it again, the 90s cooldown(and reducing this cooldown further with the use of rare or very rare heatsinks)diminishes the gap between those who put in a couple of hours to field vs those who almost look for easy AP exclusively by smashing in a couple minutes. And again, the 90s cooldown is one of the best QoL improvements Niantic has brought to the game in light of unfortunate circumstances (i.e. the pandemic), and I am a strong advocate of the opinion that this should be a permanent change.
1. 5 minutes forces people to move along to the next portal. 2. In portal deserts that's detrimental. 3. I'd want hard core mode for the recursed, with benefits. Trading time for resources, re. Never seeing another common mod again might be broken, but a twenty piece pull similar to what happened during the Nov. 2021 anniversary weeks happening with every hack might be a good tradeoff. 4. Would a blanket 5min hack lockdown for recursed but with a 20 piece random pull be enough of a tradeoff?
Permanecer menos tiempo en un portal beneficia el aprovechar el tiempo de juego ;)
Hoy el mencionado tiempo es escaso y a la vez nos expone a muchas cosas. Ya jugamos en pese a eso, los disfrutamos y compartimos de la mejor forma Pero apuntalar al jugador por mayor tiempo entre hacks nos quita la libertad de crear. El tiempo vuela, el mundo vuela, que no se estanque el juego
1. Which isn't really helpful if you are trying to get keys for the portal you're currently at.
2. Yes
3/4. I'm not sure I understand your idea. For waiting more time, we get more gear? Or we give up gear to save time? Either way, it doesn't sound like an incentive to recurse.
Think he was saying that if you recursed, you could select a hard-core mode, which is then the 5 minute cooldown, but in return for extra waiting, you get more gear
Not that we are short on VR Heatsinks now, now that we can craft them.
I know where you are coming from, but at the same time we should not waste very rare items.
Making the game slow is not pointless, as I had already pointed out, as it means that players have to time manage their game time, if that means they have to use a rare or very rare heatsink, as it was intended to help to strategize time management.
So back to the question, if 90 seconds is made permanent then heatsinks have to be reworked to work in another way.
There so far hasn't been any reasonable suggestions for reworking them. Other than to keep them as they are and go back to 5 mins of cooldown without them
I know where you are coming from, but at the same time we should not waste very rare items.
I'm constantly generating VR gear using the kinetic capsules and wasting them away on random portals as I move around. They mean nothing to me. The strategy of VR gear is different these days to how it used to be, but it depends on how your locals play.
The entire debate here is based on how people play, if you're doing lots of fielding, then the short cool down is beneficial, if you're doing other things or entirely casual, then the longer cool down makes no difference. There is no difficulty spike, just time wastefulness (even in portal sparse areas).
With the short cool down and Battle Beacons, I've been able to work on my Mind Controller. Without these things, it would be stuck on gold and going nowhere fast. I'm sure it makes Niantic happy, knowing I've spent money on over 350 BB's and counting, no doubt Niantic likes getting money! lol
Heat Sinks are fine as they are, as they help move things along even faster. If I had to sit and wait around between hacks, the game would be so boring (as it was before the changes). Keep things moving quick and there is more interaction, more game engagement, more things happening. We're in a fast paced world, there's no time to dilly dally :P
It is pointless though, yes heat sinks can make it faster, but they still do that now anyway. But if you can tput a heat sink on for whatever reason, you've just made 5 minutes of boredom each hack, that'd not time management, thats just arbitrarily dragging out time.
There are several reasons to keep time as is, they have been pointed out in this thread, from micro fielding being faster, to ap speed being faster amd more even to smash players, to health aspects in adverse weather conditions. Even from a health aspect, you're more likely to walk around more if you're not stuck waiting at a portal for 5 minutes for keys or gear. The only "cons" I've heard are the game being "easier" (since when did quicker and better qol become easier?) And heat sinks losing some value, the pros massively outweigh the "cons"
On the heat sinks lose value argument, they don’t, at least not universally.
For me, the values are now well balanced. Commons are great to get a second chance for a key after getting a zero on the first hack and resetting burnout. Rares are good for small clusters and very rares are great for isolated portals or pairs. I only hoard RHS a bit to replicate in quantum capsules and occasionally put in my KC.
If the concern is too much gear is out there then reduce the gear for hacking, especially bursters.
Alternately, if Niantic feels cooldown must be increased, increase the key rewards for a successful “more” glyph, or maybe for a new no-gear-keys-only “key” glyph.
I think this whole argument is pointless since there is still latency/game lag. Having the lag prevents us from carrying out a hack whether it's a simple one or a glyph hack. Fix that issue and we can continue this 90-minute cooldown debate.
I didn’t even know there was a major latency issue until this thread. If it’s what I’ve been experiencing for last few months it’s 30-60s where the game doesn’t respond and then it’s normal for another 30-60 mins. I was assuming it was a service provider issue.
I take it it’s much worse for others, but if that’s typical then cooldown increase is a much more serious issue to me.
It is just a con though, they are still valuable, just not as much, as they still speed up gameplay. So trying to say that all the pros of keeping the time as it is are outweighed by 1 item that is still useful is not a good argument.
They don't even need to be reworked, people still use them. But a suggestion I have is that if you put on a heatsink as well as what it does now, it also gives a slight boost to getting mods of the rarity you used
Why would they need a re-work. What exactly has been 'wrong' with Ingress game mechanics past few years? I still use lots of HS, and MH as well. Seriously, if y'all want to complain about something, complain about the game not working, lagging, the 900+ open issues there are with the game.
Stating the dev time was wasted on HS because they are 'less important' is absolute nonsense. They still do what they were meant to, reduce hack time. Jeez.
Why would heatsinks need to be reworked even if we keep the 90sec cooldowns? They still work. And since most people are concerned about saving time - heatsinks are still great at saving even more time. So not quite sure why these would need to be reworked?
It almost sounds like constant whinging. You can potentially/hopefully keep the cooldown reduction to 90s. Which is like having each portal fitted with a vrhs already. And now the argument is that this devalues vrhs and hence we need something else? Sounds a bit like a bunch of annoying kids who are never happy with whatever freebee they are given.
VRHS are still great even with 90s cooldown. Hack every 27sec and you can burn out your portal for 8 to 10 keys in under 2min alone.
If you add any extra hack to a vrhs apart from standard reset then you start devaluing multihacks. And we can have the next discussion about nerving mh. And in 6month there will be loud complains that ingress does not have a 'Eierlegende Wollmilchsau' mod that does do everything.
Happy to keep the 90s cooldown ... but really no need to amend the heatsinks. These are fine as they are.
Comments
Rapid hacking, I do it regularly, especially when I'm waiting for someone and don't have much time hacking. Or it's middle of winter now, standing in the freezing cold is not fun in the slightest, so being able to do 4 hacks in quick succession with vr heat sinks is a great heat saver.
I would point out though, making the game slow and amd pointlessly time consuming for the sake of 1 item (well 3) is not a good argument, the heat syncs could be changed to suit, like they could make mods hacked from a portal be the level of heat sync you used more likely to drop
100% will cost players, yet again.
It decreases the cooldown time further and it is very helpful when you are in a hurry to get those keys. Not everyone can get a good RNG and end up with 3 keys after hacking. Still trying to find a way to delay the time and get the mobile number of the potential date, Mr. 5 minute cooldown Cassanova?
All this (cooldown, 2x L7 resos and 65 AP recharge) really make this game easier, but easier to everyone. If I can't build a L6 portal by myself or have to wait 5min between hacks we all get less material, except those who have extra spoofing accounts. But if I have less material, or i only get 10 AP for a recharge, then I certainly won't need the 500 extra from CORE. The main reason I pay for the core is the extra space I got from it.
That's something that could be figured out regardless of changing the hack time. We have dealt with shields, force amps, and turrets being adjusted.
Just adding my name to the “please leave cool down at 90 seconds” list.
I was actually surprised it was 90 seconds as for some reason I’ve been assuming it was 150 for the past year and a half. 5 mins would be unbearable now.
I don't understand the “what’s the point of hear sinks” argument. Ok, maybe for your style of gameplay and portal density you don’t need heat sinks, but I certainly do. I am constantly short on them, especially very rares.
I will also point out that in some places it’s -30 C today. There’s nothing easy about 90 s cooldown in a deep northern winter.
At the end of the day, it’s the 4 hack un-modded limit that limits abuse of the lower cooldown.
If they decide to go up to 2.5 mins (or, shudder, 5) please at least allow a guaranteed 1 key for a successful “more” glyph.
Extra idea if cooldown is increased: allow a “key only” glyph that cools in 90s.
"have to wait 5min between hacks we get less material"
Umm... What? No. You don't get less material if you wait between hacks for 90s vs 300s. That's RNG and you'd get the same amount of gear at the cost of significantly higher wait time between each cooldown. What you also get is less patient and progressively more tired of the useless, endless waiting. This has already been said before, and I will say it again, the 90s cooldown (and reducing this cooldown further with the use of rare or very rare heatsinks) diminishes the gap between those who put in a couple of hours to field vs those who almost look for easy AP exclusively by smashing in a couple minutes. And again, the 90s cooldown is one of the best QoL improvements Niantic has brought to the game in light of unfortunate circumstances (i.e. the pandemic), and I am a strong advocate of the opinion that this should be a permanent change.
Long press a portal for a nice surprise 😉
That doesn’t guarantee a key and it doesn’t allow for a glyph to get more than one key.
I’m pretty sure that’s a 75% chance 1 key (25% of zero).
1. 5 minutes forces people to move along to the next portal. 2. In portal deserts that's detrimental. 3. I'd want hard core mode for the recursed, with benefits. Trading time for resources, re. Never seeing another common mod again might be broken, but a twenty piece pull similar to what happened during the Nov. 2021 anniversary weeks happening with every hack might be a good tradeoff. 4. Would a blanket 5min hack lockdown for recursed but with a 20 piece random pull be enough of a tradeoff?
Anyway, the lag should stay. Fixing the lag would make the game too easy.
Permanecer menos tiempo en un portal beneficia el aprovechar el tiempo de juego ;)
Hoy el mencionado tiempo es escaso y a la vez nos expone a muchas cosas. Ya jugamos en pese a eso, los disfrutamos y compartimos de la mejor forma Pero apuntalar al jugador por mayor tiempo entre hacks nos quita la libertad de crear. El tiempo vuela, el mundo vuela, que no se estanque el juego
1. Which isn't really helpful if you are trying to get keys for the portal you're currently at.
2. Yes
3/4. I'm not sure I understand your idea. For waiting more time, we get more gear? Or we give up gear to save time? Either way, it doesn't sound like an incentive to recurse.
Think he was saying that if you recursed, you could select a hard-core mode, which is then the 5 minute cooldown, but in return for extra waiting, you get more gear
90 seconds of cooldown with a VR Heatsink
60 seconds with two.
Not that we are short on VR Heatsinks now, now that we can craft them.
I know where you are coming from, but at the same time we should not waste very rare items.
Making the game slow is not pointless, as I had already pointed out, as it means that players have to time manage their game time, if that means they have to use a rare or very rare heatsink, as it was intended to help to strategize time management.
So back to the question, if 90 seconds is made permanent then heatsinks have to be reworked to work in another way.
There so far hasn't been any reasonable suggestions for reworking them. Other than to keep them as they are and go back to 5 mins of cooldown without them
I know where you are coming from, but at the same time we should not waste very rare items.
I'm constantly generating VR gear using the kinetic capsules and wasting them away on random portals as I move around. They mean nothing to me. The strategy of VR gear is different these days to how it used to be, but it depends on how your locals play.
The entire debate here is based on how people play, if you're doing lots of fielding, then the short cool down is beneficial, if you're doing other things or entirely casual, then the longer cool down makes no difference. There is no difficulty spike, just time wastefulness (even in portal sparse areas).
With the short cool down and Battle Beacons, I've been able to work on my Mind Controller. Without these things, it would be stuck on gold and going nowhere fast. I'm sure it makes Niantic happy, knowing I've spent money on over 350 BB's and counting, no doubt Niantic likes getting money! lol
Heat Sinks are fine as they are, as they help move things along even faster. If I had to sit and wait around between hacks, the game would be so boring (as it was before the changes). Keep things moving quick and there is more interaction, more game engagement, more things happening. We're in a fast paced world, there's no time to dilly dally :P
Ah, I see. I think I'd probably be more interested in the opposite. Fast cooldown, less gear.
We are playing a game in our free time. Why are we debating about adding wait time to a game that we love playing?
It is pointless though, yes heat sinks can make it faster, but they still do that now anyway. But if you can tput a heat sink on for whatever reason, you've just made 5 minutes of boredom each hack, that'd not time management, thats just arbitrarily dragging out time.
There are several reasons to keep time as is, they have been pointed out in this thread, from micro fielding being faster, to ap speed being faster amd more even to smash players, to health aspects in adverse weather conditions. Even from a health aspect, you're more likely to walk around more if you're not stuck waiting at a portal for 5 minutes for keys or gear. The only "cons" I've heard are the game being "easier" (since when did quicker and better qol become easier?) And heat sinks losing some value, the pros massively outweigh the "cons"
You are forgetting that I also enjoy micro fielding when I can.
Farming when I can.
The complacency of every portal having 90 seconds is the problem here. Making heatsinks redundant for the last 2 years,
IMO calling heatsinks losing value a con, is ignorant of the immense value they brought to Ingress, not to mention all the development time.
You are still challenged, to come up with a reasonable rework of them
Considering we have been a year without a story narrative, I think the rework can be thoughtout after the fact.
Just to show that I do care about both sides of the equation.
Here is my suggestion for a rework method.
Common Heatsink - zero out the 5 hour timer, plus an additional quick hack on the portal
Rare Heatsink - zero out the 5 hour timer, plus an additional 2 quick hacks
Very Rare Heatsink - zero out the 5 hour timer, plus an additional 4 quick hacks.
What is a quick hack?
A quick hack is where there is no cool down between Hacks.
This still leaves the multi Hacks to exist the way they currently do.
On the heat sinks lose value argument, they don’t, at least not universally.
For me, the values are now well balanced. Commons are great to get a second chance for a key after getting a zero on the first hack and resetting burnout. Rares are good for small clusters and very rares are great for isolated portals or pairs. I only hoard RHS a bit to replicate in quantum capsules and occasionally put in my KC.
If the concern is too much gear is out there then reduce the gear for hacking, especially bursters.
Alternately, if Niantic feels cooldown must be increased, increase the key rewards for a successful “more” glyph, or maybe for a new no-gear-keys-only “key” glyph.
My above suggestion would remove the cool down timer between Hacks.
As that would be entirely redundant with a 90 seconds of cool down.
As the fact of the matter is that all I really use Heatsinks for is for quick Hacking
I think this whole argument is pointless since there is still latency/game lag. Having the lag prevents us from carrying out a hack whether it's a simple one or a glyph hack. Fix that issue and we can continue this 90-minute cooldown debate.
I didn’t even know there was a major latency issue until this thread. If it’s what I’ve been experiencing for last few months it’s 30-60s where the game doesn’t respond and then it’s normal for another 30-60 mins. I was assuming it was a service provider issue.
I take it it’s much worse for others, but if that’s typical then cooldown increase is a much more serious issue to me.
It is just a con though, they are still valuable, just not as much, as they still speed up gameplay. So trying to say that all the pros of keeping the time as it is are outweighed by 1 item that is still useful is not a good argument.
They don't even need to be reworked, people still use them. But a suggestion I have is that if you put on a heatsink as well as what it does now, it also gives a slight boost to getting mods of the rarity you used
Why would they need a re-work. What exactly has been 'wrong' with Ingress game mechanics past few years? I still use lots of HS, and MH as well. Seriously, if y'all want to complain about something, complain about the game not working, lagging, the 900+ open issues there are with the game.
Stating the dev time was wasted on HS because they are 'less important' is absolute nonsense. They still do what they were meant to, reduce hack time. Jeez.
Why would heatsinks need to be reworked even if we keep the 90sec cooldowns? They still work. And since most people are concerned about saving time - heatsinks are still great at saving even more time. So not quite sure why these would need to be reworked?
It almost sounds like constant whinging. You can potentially/hopefully keep the cooldown reduction to 90s. Which is like having each portal fitted with a vrhs already. And now the argument is that this devalues vrhs and hence we need something else? Sounds a bit like a bunch of annoying kids who are never happy with whatever freebee they are given.
VRHS are still great even with 90s cooldown. Hack every 27sec and you can burn out your portal for 8 to 10 keys in under 2min alone.
If you add any extra hack to a vrhs apart from standard reset then you start devaluing multihacks. And we can have the next discussion about nerving mh. And in 6month there will be loud complains that ingress does not have a 'Eierlegende Wollmilchsau' mod that does do everything.
Happy to keep the 90s cooldown ... but really no need to amend the heatsinks. These are fine as they are.