@wrexor please read again my post. I said it is the responsibility of that player to prove his access was somehow legitimate. If he can’t prove it then he should just respect the access hours as most of player do.
@Nysyr Using your connections to access an area not open to the public is not crass, it's a standard component of the game.
Social engineering has been a key part of tactical/strategic gameplay for as long as I have been playing. Durable anchors can be extremely valuable. This one was only slightly durable but apparently it was quite valuable to local Enlightened for a short period of time. If they'd employed social engineering tactics themselves they might have been able to rebuild the portal legitimately and establish their starburst.
This discussion is very much a they-said/they-said festival in a situation where there seems to be long-term animosity. One side claims they have evidence of trespassing that would stand up in a court of law and the other side says they used their connections. As an outsider who doesn't know the people involved I can't render a judgement about who is right. I will say that I haven't seen anything but circumstantial evidence of possible trespassing, and that using connections is certainly plausible.
Choosing a slightly-durable anchor in a very active opponent's backyard seems like a strategic error.
sorry for that, the opponent ‘s backyard is perhaps not far away, but not on this mountain. The cimetery is more than share custody 🤣 for all players .
Anyway, that wasn’t fair and now it’s like « mr Judge, the door was open I stole everything but it wasn’t my fault ». Poor defense. 😉
Let’s try to see how the offender can be forgiven. And everybody won’t complaint anymore. Play friendly.
Since this "secret" Op is no longer one, how about you ask us kindly for our collaboration, tell us what time and date you want to do it and what kind of help you need from us?
No player is required to engage and provide proof of anything to another player.
@Azhreia that was taken out of context once again, read my previous post.
But as you said, in the optic of no one has to prove anything, that mean players should respect access hours or else be suspected of trespassing - by default.
@CHAT0N Suspect anything you want whenever you want, I think we're all fine with that. Accusations should require a higher standard of evidence.
And convictions even higher. The burden of proof lies on the plaintiff, always.
@CHAT0N bro, do you even watch Matlock??
The comments in this post feel very ENL vs RES.
Bottom line, what happened has happened. If Niantic places a ban, it's unfair as we have no proof of the legitimacy of the trespass claims, if they don't, it's unfair to the faction who was trying to create the link star. Instead, plan the next op with a fallback target, so if it is spoofed or trespassed, they would have to take out multiple target portals.....
@wrexor our community has given enough proof to prove there was a trespassing. Opening hours + Time of capture should be enough in majority of the cases.
@Hosette what evidences you want more than that ?
It has nothing to do with ENL vs RES, it should apply to both factions, all players - since it’s part of the game rules and players ToS that we all accept without reading when first creating our profile.
It starts causing sketchy play allegations. Every box has that one player you know pulls stuff. You attempt to replicate what they did and can't. That's what's O.P. is growling at in this post. And we are trying to give outs pro/con and disagreements are happening.
So let's see.
I've been accused in COMMs of being somebody's second account, because I'm short. Literally, the frenemy agent was in the car behind us and he could see the driver but not me, because the top of my head was below the seat's headrest.
I've been accused in COMMs of spoofing, because that same agent tried to find a new-to-him portal in the dark on a cloudy moonless night. He'd followed the paved "path" to the right, in the dark hadn't noticed that it also branched forward, and he ended up being stymied by construction equipment.
I've been accused in COMMs of trespassing, because we parked our car on the street in front of a park, captured the portal, and went on our merry way without even getting out of the car. But the park apparently has "open hours" which we'd purportedly violated, by not getting out of the car.
So all this "he said she said" kerfuffle makes me realize perfectly well how Niantic cannot ever just take one person's word, without physical proof. I will still make an occasional report when I am completely sure that somebody was "traveling" at impossible speeds, or when somebody is harassing in COMMs, but I leave it at that. Niantic will do what Niantic will do, quietly behind the scenes, as they are loathe to do anything that publicly ties agent names to actual people.
Chaton, you keep pressing this example because the accused is Res but then we could give you a lot of similar examples where very active Montreal Enl were involved and they are still in your community, double standards? Some participants of this discussion also got in trouble with Niantic before for harassement or multiple accounts. Cleaning our laundry on social media is not going to improve Mtl Enl Res relations and Niantic cannot check who I know works where and gives me privileges. It looks like someone here is using multiple accounts (mostly on page 1) to comment, how serious is this vs ToS? What do you propose to improve and have better Res Enl relations since I think a Vanguard and many very involved players have express a lot of good arguments about the main subject of this thread?
If there's multiple account users posting on here, they are **** themselves in the foot because you can check IPs from the forum functionality.
@CHAT0N I think I've made my position clear. You've offered circumstantial evidence. The accused has countered by suggesting that they got legitimate access via social engineering. I've been in plenty of closed facilities 100% legitimately. Do you have hard evidence of this agent gaining access illegitimately?
Do you guys really need to continue dragging this fight out in the public forums?
This forum has been really insightful for me. The trespassing subject has been discussed quite a few times in these forums in the past and we believe, it will continue to be discussed in the future.
Going through this forum. My understanding of the situation is that a RES player believes that the area around where he lives belongs to him and does not tolerate people that play's in his area without him telling them what to do. On October 16, 2021 a successful ENL operation happened in the closed cemetery, and a portal no one had access to was being linked from everywhere in town. When he saw that he lost control of the situation, he went berserk and jumped the fence to destroy the anchor portal of the ENL. Unfortunately, he did not know that this ENL was an operation and was caught cheating, his pants down. His ego is so big that he cannot admit his wrong doing and he suggested connection with the city so that he could go in this restricted area to cover his wrong doing knowing this would be hard for the ENL to prove the contrary. Unfortunately this is a private cemetery. and the city has nothing to do with the cemetery.This is incriminating him more for the wrong doing, as he even suggested that he would not have jumped the fence if he did knew about the op. he is such a control freak that he is suggesting that any op should go through him for approval.
all i see is that a few ENL members stop playing because of this injustice while this person that committed the infraction is parading threw town in-tensing his games, while he has defied the rules of the game being unpunished .People are asking what is better for the future of this game, should we tolerate this kind of behavior or could we sanction it.
Ingress is a Faction vs Faction game:
If someone come to destroy any portal that I use from what you are writing I should let them do what they want (I will quote you) those portal does not belong to me.
Let make this clear no they do not belong to me but they do not also belong to another player telling me what I’m allowed to do because he has an operation planned.
I will try to block any operation by fighting back, throw blocker and rebuild my field every time someone is destroying my fields. This is exactly what Armadyl is doing. This is exactly what any ENL player will be doing when someone fight in his play area.
From there you and multiple other ENL are stating that he jumped the fence (with a big story painting Armadyl to your liking (throwing a couple of insult for good measure)). But there are also thousands of people stating that the earth is flat without any proof :
- Adding number won't create a proof that Armadyl didn’t gain legal access to the portal at that time.
- Adding insult won't create a proof that Armadyl didn’t gain legal access to the portal at that time.
- Painting a big story won't create a proof that Armadyl gain didn’t legal access to the portal at that time.
Let stop throwing insult and play the blame game (both RES and ENL players) it doesn’t get anywhere.
your opinion is useless since you dont know any of us… you are the only vanguard in this area but never play the game or did anything around … so what you think you know mean nothing… go out and play the game once in a while… maybe then you will understand….
Uh wait what ?
if I didn’t have to try to help with agent dealing with multi account, fake portal, Spoofer, portal move: I would have more time to actually play the game.
But what do you know about it ? Congratulations you won the internet.
im just saying that you need to be an active player in the area to understand what we are dealing with… so since we never saw you anywhere around montreal you can keep your opinion to yourself… try to be involved in the community before making assumptions of something you dont know or understand would be great…
And you don’t think I talk with agent in the Monteal region ?
Do you have idea what Brossard agent where dealing with for a couple of months ?
ho i know you can talk to other agent on the internet but you can’t rely only of what people says… you maybe all wrong who knows … the question at the beginning of this post was to clarify that rule of tresspass by niantic … and yet we still haven’t heard from them…
I have reported my fair share of trespassing ( on both side ): unless this is a highly restricted zonewhere there is no way an agent can be there legaly I do not think you will get any result. ( this is not a highly restricted zone and multiple person can have access legally )
You cannot give any proof that Armadyl was there illegaly and you cannot force an agent to give proof.
Since i do not speak for niantic I could be wrong and this is all based on my experience.
My only question remains: Have any of you reported the action ? If so was the reported closed ?
You will never get the answer if any strike was given by Niantic or action done on the account:
For privacy reasons, we cannot discuss actions taken against other agents; therefore, you will not receive any additional updates on this report.
Thanks @K4l3v I did not meant to offend you. Maybe I need to practice more my English. I did not want you to take it personal.
if I can go back to the op;
The Anchor was chosen in a cemetery that closes at 5 pm Saturday and opens at 8 in the morning on Monday.
links where pouring from all around the town.
The Smart move would have been to send blockers (as I believe was tried) but the anchor was flipped stoping an ENL op: no fun for the ENL who worked hard for this op, No fun for RES side to take the challenge to destroy it.
I understand that we cannot catch everybody, but sometimes circumstance makes it obvious.
I Knew a player that hurt his foot in the winter. He was going through the Mount Royal using closed passages. thankfully it was not so bad.
just a precision: the cemetery that closes at 5 pm Saturday and opens at 8 in the morning on Monday.
No worry it would take a lot more to be offended : you can ask Khmorr he once insulted me in comms and I tried asking him why considering I never spoke or saw him before.
While you state he is not allowed to be there the player state he has a legal way to be there.
And like I written there could be a strike or a warning or anything: Niantic won’t answer you for privacy reason as I have quoted.
Oh for gods sake can we close this thread!?
It's all he said, she said, blah blah over, (and I apologize if I offend) a relatively minor op in the great scheme of things.
I've seen far worse trespassing, (and evidence I have seen does not even prove it was trespassing) far bigger ops ruined and you guys are having a giant sooky over a small link star you could redo.
Our ENL had an op spoofed before they could finish with lines 800km+ long.
Did they complain and whine on official forum? No. Go sort out your local community and grow up please.
Thanks for the precision hopefully Niantic will get to the bottom of that. they are the judges. lets not have emotions take over the game. If they need more detail, pretty sure it can be provided, especially it's the first time a theoretical legal way was used on a Sunday morning in that cemetery.
duly noted :)