Migration to Lightship

I want to start this new thread so it doesn't get lost in the numerous posts on the explanation given to us officially.

I usually am pretty reserved and laid back when it comes to a lot of this type of stuff, but there is some things I need to get off my chest about this issue. I have accepted a lot of changes in Ingress over the last 8 years and know there is more changes to come, and for the most part I welcome those changes.

One thing that seeming hasn't changed is the communication between Niantic and its player base. I thought that with the massive negative feedback from the interaction distance over at Pokémon Go that maybe there would be a bit of a change in course about this internally at Niantic, but once again there seems to be a disconnect between decisions and the people and games that those decisions effect.

Those of us whom consider ourselves "Seers" love discovering new potential PoI for Wayfarer and by extension Ingress, Pokémon Go, HPWU, and any other game that may use this database in the future. I really got into submitting new portals toward the end of Phase 1, before OPR. I was excited when the process was turned over to the player base to help clear the backlog of millions of submitted portals from my area and see those from other areas too. I remember seeing portals start to populate areas of Idaho that I had never been to. Someone near Twin Falls Idaho had gone to the Minidoka Japanese Internment National Historical site and submitted many of the historical buildings and plaques in this museum and it made me want to travel there to visit and learn about what happened. I would have never done that without this game and the Wayfarer process.

When OPR changed to Wayfarer and the process opened up to Pokémon Go players I welcomed in as many as I could from my local area to our telegram chat to answer questions and share with others what we had learned through the thousands of reviews we had already done. At least here in Boise Idaho we have created a community that seemingly enjoys watching the game board on numerous games light up. We encouraged these new "Seers" to look beyond trying to get a Pokestop or Gym by their home and find the quality that could be nearby and only a short walk away. I believe this is why Niantic has wanted more quality than quantity, as seen in other games that just randomly place things in the world with no regard on its impact.

I think we as players who have taken on this task deserve a bit better explanation on how this process works. I think the player base is beyond using that information to manipulate the game board to advantage one team, one game, or one person. There are always a few bad apples but that is why we can all report the wrong stuff making it into the game board.

@NianticThia post about what has happened seems to be the company line. After meeting her a few weeks ago on the NL See you out there tour, I think she had a difficult time posting that knowing the can of worms that was about to open up. We have questions that need answers. Too many of us take new PoI seriously. Some of us are in this for Ingress only, others including myself try to have all these new discoveries effect multiple game boards.

So here is what I think needs some answers. I am writing these questions using my experience in the last month with accepted PoI. Others may have different experiences than me and I don't speak for them, but as far as I can tell this happened to others as well.

1) I had 3 PoI that were submitted using Ingress that I received and email stating that it had been accepted and I was to be awarded a Key, 1000AP, and an advancement on my "Portals Discovered" stat. 2 of these I know have shown up in PoGo, but I received no key, no 1000AP and no tick on my stat. They have yet to appear in Ingress. The 3rd one I have not checked on in PoGo yet. All 3 of these PoI are far beyond the 20m rule that we have been working with in the past. None of these were upgraded and went through the process as normal voting. I also have 1 Nomination that was accepted that was submitted from Pokémon Go. It also appeared in PoGo but has yet to populate in Ingress

With this known,

A) will there be a sync where these PoI will eventually show up in ingress?

B) is there a new rule as to what is accepted in Ingress?

2) Rules for the game boards. I see the need for some secrecy around how to make new PoI for these different games. When this was finally opened up to players from PoGo two things happened. One they figured out pretty quick how the S2 Cells were used world wide to populate the Ingress gameboard over to PoGo. Two, and probably the more damaging part, it was also figured out how to manipulate those rules to create clusters of stops and gyms.

With this the rules really are not secret anymore. Any slight change in how things work is typically caught pretty quickly and we all know about it. With that being said why not be up front with us. Let us know the rules. Those of us who do this day in and day out are your gate keepers. The Wayfarer forum has numerous posts showing where the game board was manipulated. They typically get fixed pretty quickly after found. Use us as your eyes and ears. Even PoGo has brought some good reviewers to the forefront who care as much if not more that us Ingress players. There is always going to be someone to abuse any system that is put before them. That is what your dedicated Wayfarers are for.

With this known,

A) Can we get some transparency from Wayfarer and Niantic?

B) Does Wayfarer need a Players board similar to the Vanguard program in Ingress to help facilitate communication. (I would love to be on this board if one was to exist)

3) Please treat your player base with a little more respect. This was evident last month with the Pokémon Community revolted over a change in the quality of life improvement that was made due to COVID lockdowns over the past 18 months. Niantic had to scramble to minimize the damage and actually listened to the complaints. I really hoped this would have translated into more communication across the board with other player bases, but at least right now it seems like we are being told to ignore the house that is on fire and continue plugging away.

The flood of PoI from other sources with no quality control is a slap in the face to those who are really trying to do their best and add real locations. I realize there might be some areas of the world that are under developed but there has to be another way to use that information from Foursquare or where ever it was imported from then just blanket a country with PoI that include Brothels, Liquor stores, and every corner market.

I am not currently planning on stopping submitting new PoI or reviewing others, but if the work I am putting into this is not benefiting the games I enjoy playing then I could get frustrated with the process and decide it's not worth it anymore. I always thought of my payment for this work is the expanded play field. I think others may also believe this as well.

I know this is a long post, I am also going to post this over at the Wayfarer forum as well because this does effect them too. I also apologize if this rambles too much.

Thank you for reading if you made it this far, Please be civil in the comments and Niantic, Please hear our voices like you did those from PoGo and lets make some changes together.

@NianticBrian @ace (is that really John Hanke? I saw someone else tag him) @NianticThia


  • I think this an excellent well thought out piece and deserves some fulsome responses from Niantic.

    you have my full support.


  • KhatreKhatre ✭✭✭✭✭

    not what will happen to POI accepted more than a month ago and still not in ingress/intell (but are in pogo/hpwu)

    should we just be really patient and wait several more months ?

  • KarM3LKarM3L ✭✭✭✭

    Yup, ingress needs to loose all pois so rules and pois can be recalculated across the board but, this was suggested and hinted at at primes release, to much outcry,

    Nobody knows what unused POIs exist and there effect* on the playboards

    *I've seen many theories but no proof

    Give us away to cleanup the database** and resync all the Ingress POIs

    ** is there enough data from Scout for quality control yet??

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