Unbalanced treatment of reports

djf1ldjf1l ✭✭

Yesterday around the areas of play AF07-ROMEU-12 & 15 a spoofer decided to vandalize the game.

This has become a common event that has been causing a flood of accusations among players of both factions. Such so, that reports end up being made just for mentioning an agent of the opposing faction.

Well, so far it seems to be a normal day in ingress (Unfortunately).

What I would like to expose publicly is the treatment these reports have been having. NIA is clearly treating some reports as priority. So much so that some reports have actions taken in within minutes, in an almost super-human so called verification.

There are many more cases, but to follow NIA's policy of protecting the privacy of others I will be exposing just the facts that have happened to me:

Fact 1: it has been a very long time I wrote on comm, so I can't be wrong on which message caused the action taken by NIA. A very long time.

Fact 2: the message causing the action is written from so far, that only the reporting agent could have read it first. Then others if he has shared it.

Fact 3: from message to action taken by NIA only 3 minutes have passed!

Fact 4: 2 reports have been made by me about the same time, one on win-trading and another on a comm public message, 24h ago at the time of this writing.

Fact 5: both reports are still waiting for a reply...

Why such a big difference of speed in the handling of the reports?

Fact 6: there are a lot more situations like this. This is not an isolated case! This is the common situation for some time now. So much that it has been exposed by other players on the same area of play.

I understand that all cases are different, and that some are obvious while others are more complex, nevertheless 3 minutes on a message voided of accusations nor insults versus a message accusing some players of a faction of cheating without any action taken in 24h is a clear biased processing of the reports.

The messages:

"O jogo de alguns sapos é tão facil. sentados no sofá sem fazer nada. Good Game. este jogo esta top."

"@_________ é uma tristeza isto ser possivel. Mas também é obvio quem beneficia desses movimentos. Se fosse 1 sapo, de certeza que todos aqueles links que bloqueiam o vosso jogo na Margem Sul teriam ficado como tem estado faz semanas!"

Can you guess which message had the 3 minute verification??

Comments

  • edited July 9

    Spoofing and Harassment are two very different things.

    Spoofing requires evidence which can be tricky for Niantic to verify.

    Harassment is there in black and white on their server logs.

    If you chose to hara.ss someone by claiming they were spoofing, on the platform Niantic has complete logs for, and handed your opponent a slam dunk report... that's on you.

    Don't accuse people of cheating, on the platform that Niantic has complete text logs for, if you don't want to be slammed with a harassment claim. It's literally a tactic that will get you banned.

  • djf1ldjf1l ✭✭
    edited July 10

    Yes, that's what I thought.

    But then the message that got instant punishment is the one not accusing anyone!

    It's confusing, right?

    At best I 'accused' his 'faction' of gaining from it, not of doing it. But his message is a clear accusation!

    One can't hara.ss anyone with a single message. At best I could have been insulting, which is neither the case!

    Besides, neither the spoof or the actions taken against me are the focus of the post! But instead, the reaction times NIA takes towards the same report type made by elements of different factions! Specially when one is a clear accusation!

    BTW, I'm still waiting on a reply from NIA on both reports. Why? 3minutes vs days now?

    Post edited by djf1l on
  • BGracaBGraca ✭✭✭

    Allo @Perringaiden

    this is very simple to analyze.

    first of all...

    yes, I am in favor of censorship about someone's freedom to offend another person.

    the question goes through the report, about everything.

    For the translation of the report, made with the stated purpose for prosecution and direct sanction.

    the question is really that. my right to the contradictory, to my defense!

    in seconds or minutes, the persons that can motivate the Fair Play and respect for others... are the ones that press a botton for a special commban.

    xm ambassador, Vanguards,

    trusted reporters; faction a side!!

    in this case, or similar,

    "dont choose your side"

    COMM is more than a simple chat room in this intelligent game.

  • BGracaBGraca ✭✭✭

    yes, I always used COMM.

    and it will NOT be now that I will not use it.

    It is a game tool about the game and about who plays it.

    yes i have to check medals, access points, number of hacks and ghost accounts.

    yes ... I have to see if I can play the same way or if someone from my team or opponent plays fair or not.

    yes I do math ... and yes I know perfectly well when someone should no longer have xmp but it seems to be unlimited.

    capsules on the floor...

    yes ... deserves a message on the COMM in-game and say that you are playing poorly and should not do it !!

    yes i will use the comm.

    I'm not a PoliceGRESS to go and correct anyone...

    but I don't like to play this game I started in version 1 in vain.

    Gone are the days when there was one agent mimimi in 20 agents. all very sensitive nowadays!

    but... who likes to be called to attention if they do something wrong?

  • BGracaBGraca ✭✭✭

    The accusation!


    A Spoofer HAS NO COLOR!

    result!

    DELETED COMM MESSAGES.

    Just for the person that does this. Please remove yourself from the program trusted reporters.

  • in seconds or minutes, the persons that can motivate the Fair Play and respect for others... are the ones that press a botton for a special commban.

    xm ambassador, Vanguards,

    trusted reporters; faction a side!!

    Point of note: No Agents, no matter their Niantic gifted position, has any involvement in processing harassment reports or comm bans.

  • One can't hara.ss anyone with a single message.

    From the Agent Protocol:

    Ingress is for players from all walks of life. Because all Agents are subject to your actions in COMM and on the field, certain interactions that seem harmless or fun to you can negatively impact their experience, even if this is not your intent.

    Niantic disagrees with your assessment of what one message can do.

  • djf1ldjf1l ✭✭
    edited July 10

    @Perringaiden

    Have you read the messages?

    Have you read the post?

    Is my english not good enough?

    Why do you keep focusing on the side notes?

    The focus question is:

    Why is there such a huge difference in the handling of reports?

    The same report type, the same time frame, but one takes days, while the other takes minutes?

    That is not an automated processing! Machine Learning & NLP are great tools, but are not yet good enough for hidden meanings nor second intention, nor puns!

    There are people behind this actions and verifications. And highly biased ones.

  • AzhreiaAzhreia ✭✭✭✭✭

    As @Perringaiden mentioned already, no Vanguard, TR or XMA has any influence on bans. We don't have a "special button" to issue bans left right and center. We don't have a "red phone" to call Ops and demand "Ban Agent X, he was mean to someone".

  • BGracaBGraca ✭✭✭

    Good Morning @Azhreia

    Thank you for your time, effort and dedication to making this board fairer and more playable.

    The influence that Vanguards, TRs and XMAs have over @NianticOPs may be a way to persuade a change in the reporting system.

    A poor and desonest translation of the coom msg in the report makes the decission faster.

    Afecting the agents game play. No matter if its the IGN that "offends" or the especial portal in the middle of the country field.

    Thank you again. :)

  • At least Vanguards and XMAs do not have any contact with NIA Ops. From what I've been told, 99% of Niantic employees do not have any contact with NIA Ops. Everything is run through representatives like Andrew Krug and Pooja. NIA Ops is firewalled off from everyone else, specifically to prevent undue influence by people with a vested interest.

  • djf1ldjf1l ✭✭


    That still doesn't explain, how are these events happening.

    The reports are not being handled equally nor fairly.

    I understand taking days, even if it is a clear conclusion. What we don't understand is when they are so fast! That all these peculiar events seem to be caused by the same players, and with a very far fetched reasoning.

    Players have already noticed that clear spoof reports are handled on fridays. Meaning the reposition of portal ownership is set on fridays. Making thursdays a perfect moment to clear some links.

    All I hope to achieve is that you revise the process and the people involved. In order to make it equally fair for everyone involved. The very least to have this events reduced, by a lot!

  • AzhreiaAzhreia ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BGraca we have no influence over Ops. What @Perringaiden said is pretty much how it works.

    @djf1l the speed with which reports are closed has no bearing on the outcome. If Ops finds clear evidence of wrongdoing they can close a ticket and apply measures against the account quickly. Even if it takes 3 days before a ticket is closed, you can't be sure that it took Ops 3 days to investigate or that it took Ops 3 days to clear the queue ahead of that ticket.

  • That still doesn't explain, how are these events happening.

    I'm not claiming it does. What I'm pointing out is that this is entirely internal to NIA Ops and has nothing to do with players, for good or ill. NIA Ops is comprised of many people, so if they're given high independence, they may come to vastly different conclusions. But none of that is on the Vanguards, XMAs or Trusted Reporters, only NIA Ops.

  • GoblinGranateGoblinGranate ✭✭✭✭✭

    I find this thread closely related to this one.

    Best advice is try to avoid tagging opponents in COMMs.

  • djf1ldjf1l ✭✭

    Please push this subject/topic, and others like this one (as mentioned by @GoblinGranate ) to NIA Ops.

  • djf1ldjf1l ✭✭

    My opinion is that Ops couldn't have possibly found any clear evidence of wrongdoing in the mesasage:

    "@_________ é uma tristeza isto ser possivel. Mas também é obvio quem beneficia desses movimentos. Se fosse 1 sapo, de certeza que todos aqueles links que bloqueiam o vosso jogo na Margem Sul teriam ficado como tem estado faz semanas!"

    Which translated by google goes like so:

    "@_________ it's a sadness this is possible. But it's also obvious who benefits from these moves. If it were 1 frog, surely all those links that block your game on the South Bank would have stayed as they have been for weeks!"

    That message got instant punishment!

    While the other, which translates to:

    "Some frogs play is so easy. sitting on the couch doing nothing. Good Game. this game is top."

    got replied yesterday by (July 11th, 2021) by 10:58AM WET Meaning 2,5 days later

    Maybe you can see what I can't! Please let me know I'm very baffled by this!

    Anyone watching the game at that time, would have understood that a particular new player was just spoofing. He linked 3 totally closed portals including one at an island, with godlike times. So I did understood the message the other player sent, but I could also see who got the advantage afterwards.

    If you best advise is to not tag opponents then you obviously do not play much, and like things the way they are. But for me ingress has decreased quality like I haven't seen in a few years. And I think that if no one speaks up, then nothing ever gets better.

  • AzhreiaAzhreia ✭✭✭✭✭

    True, those are your opinions, but as they are just opinion and you have no way of verifying these, you can't assume anything.

    You won't know that it was that comm message that was deemed inappropriate or if it was something else.

    I didn't advise anything regarding comm behaviour.

    And none of us have the ability to "push this to Ops".

  • If Niantic employees are firewalled off from NIA Ops... do you really think players can do better?

  • djf1ldjf1l ✭✭

    Please read the post.

    I am sure it was that comm message.

    If you can't do nothing, then what are you guys here for?

    Stating that the system is perfect 'ad ifinitum' without presenting any proof that explains the executions speed differences on so many reports, and not even taking the time to have/ask those that can "do something" is also very unproductive. Specially when you clearly don't even read the posts!

    What are you supposed to do?


    I accept no system is perfect but the reports system is clearly unbalanced!

  • Don't you think it's a bit arrogant to allege that others don't read your posts, when you at the same time grossly misrepresent what other people write? One could also call it insulting.

    We're aware that you "are sure" what exactly your COMM message triggered. But that doesn't mean that's really what happened, you simply don't know, no matter how often you claim it and no matter how often others read that.

    I don't see anybody stating the system is perfect, quite the opposite. It's perfectly possible to point out that you don't have the evidence you'd need for drawing meaningful conclusions about a specific hypothesized problem, without claiming that there are no problems at all. And that's exactly what people are doing.

    Regarding your questions, this might help: https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/ingress/?s=agent-protocol&f=about-the-alliance-of-the-vanguards-program

  • djf1ldjf1l ✭✭


    No I can't be sure about the time taken to investigate any issue. Unless it takes 3minutes from event to email received. Here, I can infer that there was no investigation! Just an automatic punishment!

    I can't infer that a particular message is the root cause, unless I have no other messages in a very very long time. I'm talking months up to a year.

    My view that it is unbalanced has been exposed in at least 3 other threads before this, by different people, with different events, many more events. It is not just me! I have mentioned this before, as have @GoblinGranate.

    Well, on one there is a player accusing part of the other faction of cheating. And on the other is a player pointing that whoever was doing the spoof, could have done a far better job in not benefiting the previous player team. Both have been translated in this thread because both messages were in portuguese, and written on the first post. And apparently no one knows how to use google translate.


    I am sorry If you feel offended by my assumption of others not reading the first post (at least). It is an assumption based on having to answer the same questions over and over again.

    You are assuming the system is perfect and that if I got a warning (my first in all the years I've been playing ingress) then it must be that it was deserved. It is stated every time you say I can't pinpoint the root cause of the warning. As stated previously there are MONTHS of me basically not even playing before this event, much less having comm messages written. So yes, I can pinpoint the root cause message. And I even know who reported firstly, or the very least who shared the message to be reported, no one else could have received it but him. As you well know if you text from far away, then just the tagged player is notified, and unless other players happen to guess on which ocean I was ... I can safely infer that he was the first and only notified.

    Thanks for the link: "...Vanguards are player community members who volunteer to represent and advocate for other players for the purpose of enhancing the overall player experience...", "...In Conclusion Vanguards are player advocates.", "...They are encouraged to provide feedback to Niantic, whether based on their own opinions or to pass on opinions and sentiments of their local community"

    Having the comm, and reports triggering warnings and bans unjustifiably decreases the overall gaming experience. Please pass on my opinion, and of those that have either posted or liked or participated in any way on this and the other forum threads like the one mentioned by @GoblinGranate .

    All I'm getting from you is: "you can't know", "we don't know", "we can do nothing", "better not write in comm"

    Why do you volunteer!? Do you really think the reports haven't been abused??? How much more cases and people speaking against it or dropping the game do you really need?

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