Level 17 - 24, in the era of Recursion.

In @IUENG we were discussing how you'd get level 17-24, in light of people doing all these recursions. But the answer really is simple. So far the only 'benefits' of Recursion are a Battle Beacon each month and wings.

Extrapolating the average AP increase through levels 9-16, level 24 would be over 1.4 billion AP.

Using Agent Stats as a representative set, there would only be a mere handful of players at level 24. Agent Stats only contains one and that's not even considering what badges would be required.

So essentially, adding levels 17-24 would put every single player onto a levelling track again. There wouldn't be any issues with a flood of "Automatic 24s" etc, and those who are already pushing the billion AP are unlikely to be discouraged by 'hitting max level' given they're already at 25 times the previous max level AP.

Here's how it could go:

  1. Everyone's AP is set back to their Lifetime AP.
  2. Recursion counts are kept as a benefit of doing it pre-17. Wings are kept for those who have 1+ Recursion points.
  3. Battle Beacons are awarded to players who are level 16 or higher, instead of as a recursion benefit.
  4. Each player's level is recalculated based on where they fall on the expanded levelling chart.
  5. Recursion becomes available at level 24 now.

The purpose of Recursion was to give players incentive to keep gaining AP. Higher levels would continue this incentive far beyond what Recursion did. The minimal change in power between 8 and 16 would also be maintained, with only Recharge Range (6000KMs, and XM Bar of roughly 30,000 XM) being the benefits of higher levels.

One possible change could be that wings are awarded at level 16, instead of on Recursion. This would offset new player's complaints that they'll never reach 24 and be able to recurse, and also continue the tradition of the wings indicating a player that had hit level 16 (since the vast majority recurse).

So, who wants to be level 24?

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Comments

  • Me me me ;))

  • mortuusmortuus ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2021

    I want new levels.. lvl 16 max now isnt a challenge really, 40m ap some ppl can do in short time.. now we have apex also.. time for more lvls so the game can expand more. Like back then lvl 8 was a challenge we got to lvl 16, now its time to give us more lvls just like pokemon go not long ago 10 more lvls.. now ingress needs more lvls again to make lvls highest a challenge get.

  • MonkeyPeltMonkeyPelt ✭✭✭✭

    Interesting concept! I appreciate the minimal benefits of reaching higher levels for many, so it wouldn't cause much of a disparity between "haves and have-nots". Additionally it could cause more Battle Beacon and Apex sales for people wanting to get a flashy number up, which could increase Niantic's revenue without affecting gameplay, much.

    The main downside I see is, aside from recursing multiple times to obtain level up gear packs (I don't know any agents out there that recurse just for this reason, but I'm sure there are some out there), agents would miss out on the recursion benefit of an easy faction change without resetting ALL stats. If this can be solved, I don't see much of a reason not to implement this.

  • How about "Every 40 million AP, you are offered a free faction change"?

  • @Hydracyan

    How about keeping recursion the exactly same way as it currently is, and add the extra levels as the so dreamed recursion benefits?

    So you're saying "Level from 1-16, then you can level from 1-24"? PoGo doesn't have a concept of recursion.

    I'd also be quite happy with additional requirements for 17-24. I wasn't making a statement on what the requirements should be. Just that the concept that Recursion prevents additional levels from being added is false.

    The steps outlined above would work just as well, if Level 17 also required you to make 100k MU once you hit that level, etc. Though there might be complaints from people with the high AP if they're capped at a level because they don't generally do an activity like "Portal Scan 50 portals"

  • Given the minimal increases in benefits, would you still feel you had to level, if the levels existed?

    If so, you probably are playing the same game :-)

  • 1valdis1valdis ✭✭✭✭✭

    Spot-on. I was so free and happy on L16 before the free battle beacon for subscription forced me to recurse :c

  • "forced"

    😁

    Also, the above proposal would give the battle beacon for being 16+.

  • HydracyanHydracyan ✭✭✭✭✭

    So you're saying "Level from 1-16, then you can level from 1-24"?

    Yes. Resetting is the whole "thing" about recursion. I would even go beyond and add one extra recursion between each new lv, requiring 8 total recursions.

  • HosetteHosette ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1valdis Isn't a battle beacon like $2.50 US? If so, you're an awfully cheap date!

    @Perringaiden No, I wouldn't feel like I had to level, but I'd actually know how much AP I had and it would become an element of my thinking. I prefer that my actions be driven by how I'm impacting the playing field.

  • grendelwulfgrendelwulf ✭✭✭✭✭

    No recursion, no wings.

  • EvilSuperHerosEvilSuperHeros ✭✭✭✭✭

    Higher levels shouldn't be based on the crazy amount of AP above, but more towards a smaller amount that is shown above (say increments of 40, 50, or 100 million AP), but increase the amount of Onyx badges you need each time you hit L16. It's what? 2 for the first time? 3, for the 2nd time (after you recurse), then 4 for the 3rd time, ect.

    Just a random thought, as badges are no longer required after you recurse. This would cause you to need to focus on leveling up other stats.

  • grendelwulfgrendelwulf ✭✭✭✭✭

    A recursed Only could count as two onyx so that higher levels can be locked behind onyx badges but are easier for recursed agents.

  • Fair enough, but given the vast majority of players have chosen to recurse, I think the 'average outlook' is a willingness to play to goals provided by the game.

  • edited February 2021

    Never claimed there weren't other paths. But as outlined above Recursion doesn't *prevent* higher levels if Niantic choose to pursue that.

    Even the comments here including your own, highlight there's a desire for something *more* than what we currently have.


    The outlined method is the absolute simplest extension. I'm sure there's plenty of other methods.

  • MonkeyPeltMonkeyPelt ✭✭✭✭

    I've been thinking/hoping for an "archetype class-based" system for years now. It seems like a TON of work to implement and would really struggle now with the low player population. If the player population begins to rebound (fingers crossed) a system like this could add loads of strategy for local communities, much less anomalies.

    I always thought of being able to change "classes" when you recursed, but this skill tree idea seems rad too!

  • No thanks....

    If you want a challenge of recusing, just get wings on all medal's where it's possible. That will give you diverse gameplay for a while, and not just "AP hunt"

    Give the recursed agents something else to do, that the non recursed agent's cannot do! You did not like the "curse" idea, fair enough.. What about giving them the abillity to remove a field with some kind of "missile" letting the link's stand but the field is gone and therefore allowing links and fields to be created inside those links. If the "outer fields" are rethrown, then the field is rebuild, and linking and fielding will not be possible again.

  • thesolothesolo ✭✭✭✭✭

    Comically unattainable numbers even for very active players. If Niantic had stuck to the original AP doubling scheme, L16 would be 307M instead of 40M.

    But thankfully they didn't do that, because that would be stupid.

    Equally stupid would adding in levels that only a handful of players in specific geographic regions with very specific play styles would ever achieve. This would only serve to discourage players.

    Want proof, look no further than games like Orna that use exponential XP growth. By the time you get to an upper level and realize just how much **** you need to hit the next one, most players just quit.

  • 1valdis1valdis ✭✭✭✭✭

    1) It's about $5.

    2) For Ukraine that's not too cheap.

  • InvestigateXMInvestigateXM ✭✭✭✭✭

    > Getting a Battle Beacon each month is news to me

    When you subscribe. If you're recursed, you'll receive an extra Battle Beacon which non-recursed won't get each month

  • mortuusmortuus ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2021

    so ppl dont get bored of the game, today getting 40m and reach lvl 16 isnt hard.. things has changed since 2014 we got lvl 16 max dont u think ? more portals today so getting ap isnt really hard... maybe not 1bil ap for lvl 24 that would scare away most but new lvls i dont see any harm in.. game needs something to evolve now after subscription and no events or anything.

  • SSSputnikSSSputnik ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2021

    I don't see how levels does that.

    Whether it's higher All Time AP or higher level it's still a number that you can compete on.

    They are both interchangeable.

    The only reason levels 1-16 matter is they gate abilities. (Item use, recharge range and XM bar).

    Adding to XM bar is a no go as it will unbalance game.

    Adding recharge range only matters for a subset of agents.

  • gazzas89gazzas89 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Honeatly, I see no point in recursing for me, I get people doing it for a variety if reasons, but none of those reasons appeal to me id rather stay at 16, keep my portal nominations, not have to work through all those bloody levels again etc. Plus I'm much more useful to my team bow as 15 and will be when 16 than I would be if I recirssed

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