How exactly 10m radius limit is supposed to fix malicious edits?

1valdis1valdis ✭✭✭✭✭

The 10 (or whatever that is) meters maximum radius makes location edits useless. Maybe except for people who want sub-meter precision. It also adds more pain for Wayfarer reviewers because choosing the right spot will be cumbersome.

It would be more logical for Niantic to either

1) Not open location edits at all;

2) Make 10m a minimum location edit distance, instead of maximum.

Real location problems require fixing locations by higher distance than 10 meters.

You could say "remove the portal and then resubmit it" but, given how our gorgeous Wayfarer currently works, I doubt anyone will do it because chances are high he isn't getting the portal back. And also why would one bother, if it's going to take months to remove the portal (possibly via appeal) and then to have it approved back?

Instead of improving the detection of bad actors (submitters as well as reviewers) who try to abuse the system and punish them, Niantic makes lazy change, "allows" edits which will be useless for real situations, and pretends like the problem is solved...


  • ZeroHecksGivenZeroHecksGiven ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know in the city I generally play in, several art installations have been rotated or some have even been sold. So now there are portals that haven't been moved, removed and in a few cases, there are now doubles of portals because the art piece moved and a new portal was created and the old one isn't removed. I was spending some time trying to "fix" these issues and have a more accurate representation of true POI, but getting things removed or moved was often times difficult, if not impossible. So, I just let it ride, especially since location edits weren't an option for awhile there.

    Not sure what the answer is, but having a limit on a portal location moves seems....limiting, lol. But I understand the intention, I think...

  • HosetteHosette ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1valdis I didn't say it was a good solution. It's clearly a hack, and I hope that it's a temporary one.

  • MoogModularMoogModular ✭✭✭✭✭

    As a "honest waypoint submitter and editor" myself, I came to the realization this is how Niantic wants to manage their POI database. I use the word manage in the loosest interpretation. If you want to be in control of it, it just leaves you in frustration.

  • SSSputnikSSSputnik ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agree, both Pokemon and Ingress have different desires on portal submissions.

    Pokemon players want everything to be clustered, with waypoints and gyms everywhere and easily accessible.

    Ingress player want this normally at only a few places for farming. And inaccessible portals are a boon rather than a bane.

    Separate the dbs would solve a lot of issues.

    You could even compare db wayfarer points to analyse these differences.

  • HosetteHosette ✭✭✭✭✭

    Think about how much extra work it would be for Niantic to maintain separate databases for each game when they have five or ten or twenty games. That's a lot more expense than maintaining one central one.

  • MoogModularMoogModular ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2020

    We could come up with a direct step by step process of a solution here and Niantic wouldn't do anything with it. My confidence with Niantic is low on them maintaining their POI database.

    There was a lot of issues present when they shut down Seer that they did nothing about that bit them back in full force when they launched Pokémon Go. They are still dealing with issues that have been questioned since OPR that still aren't addressed. I'm very surprised they made a Wayfarer central forum in the first place.

    They decided to have their POI database dependent on different zoom levels of the S2 grid. I wouldn't be surprised if their "database" is needing the same level of maintenance the intel map needed (or is it still needs?).

    A solution requires some open communication on what Niantic wants to do with their POI database in the long run. Until then, we're really in the dark on guidance and direction.

    Post edited by MoogModular on
  • InvestigateXMInvestigateXM ✭✭✭✭✭

    Official Niantic statement:

    Question for @NianticCasey, regarding the following quote:

    If a Wayspot needs to be moved beyond this, please report the Wayspot to us directly so that we can evaluate the Wayspot and update it to more accurately reflect the real-world location.

    How should we do that? There are currently no ways to do that via the app, should we just open a thread on the Wayfarer forums with evidence?

  • vidiconvidicon ✭✭✭✭✭

    The form also appears to only be for wayfarer abuse. I also question what to do in the case of a portal that is more than 10 meters from its real-world location when there is no indication of abuse, just mistake.

    I have encountered this many times, but one example comes to mind -,-77.024913&z=17&pll=38.877647,-77.024913

    This is a portal in a relatively newly-redeveloped waterfront area in Washington, DC. The original portal submission was misplaced, most likely due to stale satellite imagery. The wayspot is located in the water near a private marina pier, while the real-world object is 45 meters away at the end of a public recreation pier.

    My first attempt at correcting the location, shortly after the portal came online in 2017, was rejected. This was unsurprising given the satellite imagery at the time showed only water at the portal's location. I tried again to submit a location edit in April 2019 once the satellite imagery was updated to reflect reality, and that edit has been pending ever since.

    I have patience that this particular portal will eventually get fixed since the edit is in the queue (even if it has been pending more than a year now), but I find it unfortunate that there is no way to try to fix things the next time I find an object similarly misplaced.

  • HydracyanHydracyan ✭✭✭✭✭

    People will just keep cheating by moving it bit by bit now, and the honest players won't be able to correct it back with a single move. In my opinion this just made it worse, since now instead of one time try, they're going to make 3-4 atempts for each portal...

    Please, just remove the title and description edits to be shown with location edits. If the (bad) reviewers don't have biased descriptions influencing them towards the wrong option, they will just mark the one closer to the real location.

  • GreenVamGreenVam ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good. There is a portal in the wrong coordinates. The agent from the city tries to remove him or move him to the correct place, but as a result, all other agents from the opposite faction and Pokémon catchers are against. Enemies are against their friend's farm disappearing, and Pokemon Go players are against losing another PokéStop. What should an honest player do then? Write about each portal to the forum? or how? And if there are dozens of such portals?

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