Submitting Trails and Trail Loops

So I'm in the process of evaluating the trails at a nearby state park and there are several trails that form loops with several points where you can start hiking the trail. What is the best approach to submitting these trails as POIs? What about cases where the loop crosses the main road through the park? Should the markers on both sides be submitted or just one side? What about a trail that isn't a complete loop, but begins and ends in the same area, such as a picnic area, should both "ends" be submitted separately?

Here is a map of the park I am talking about.

wvstateparks.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/TwinFallsResortStatePark_brochure_map-1.pdf

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Comments

  • TheismanTheisman ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2019

    In the UK we have people who will go out on a trail and sub every marker on each route, normally its either proximity, visual uniqueness (ones over here all look pretty much the same) or un-verifiable location that are the reason they are rejected.

    Personally, id sub each one if they are visually different or every other one if not

  • It's mostly up to you, but I submit all trail markers as long as they're far away enough that they won't get rejected for distance. I don't submit mile markers though. I just submit the trailheads and junctions. Sometimes there's a junction where there's a large triangle in the middle which results in two or even three markers and I will still submit both. Sometimes I submit both in one submission and place the portal on one marker.

    You can't just submit the end of a trail though since there's no object attached to it. I'd say feel free to submit any actual trail marker though. And if there's a survey marker, do that too!

  • GearGliderGearGlider ✭✭✭✭✭

    If there are multiple trailmarkers or trailheads in a loop, I usually title them with their compas Rose direction on the loop. Or just number them.

  • I’ve seen plenty trail markers go through but I also know plenty of people who 1* them because they can’t tell they are physically there from the pics or satellite. If you’re gonna do trail markers and want to make sure they go through, photospheres will boost your success rate.

  • BonzorkBonzork ✭✭✭

    Yeah, most of my time submitting trail markers is eaten up by the photosphere creation, but photospheres are critical

  • ReighElmosReighElmos ✭✭✭

    I'd always submit, both ends/as many that actually have trail markers posted. The toughest thing is location placement. Photo spheres help but are not direct evidence. The supporting photo in Prime for these would be helpful with a photo sphere.


    Side note: I personally have been debating of including a compass in the shot of the supporting photo in Prime though I am not sure how helpful this would ultimately be, other than orientation surrounded by a mass of foliage. At risk of hijacking the post a but anyone have thoughts on that?

  • ReighElmosReighElmos ✭✭✭

    I'd always submit, both ends/as many that actually have trail markers posted. The toughest thing is location placement. Photo spheres help but are not direct evidence. The second photo for these would be helpful with a photo sphere.


    Side note: I personally have been debating of including a compass in the shot of the supporting photo in Prime though I am not sure how helpful this would ultimately be, other than orientation surrounded by a mass of foliage. At risk of hijacking the post a but anyone have thoughts on that?

  • ReighElmosReighElmos ✭✭✭

    I'd always submit, both ends/as many that actually have trail markers posted. The toughest thing is location placement. Photo spheres help but are not direct evidence. The second photo for these would be helpful with a photo sphere.


    Side note: I personally have been debating of including a compass in the shot of the supporting photo in Prime though I am not sure how helpful this would ultimately be, other than orientation surrounded by a mass of foliage. At risk of hijacking the post a but anyone have thoughts on that?

  • ZennZenn ✭✭✭✭

    Photospheres will be your best friend for this sort of thing.


    as for trail exit/entrances on either side of the road submit them both but only expect one to get through especially if there's a proximity issue.

  • PangarbanPangarban ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Photospheres will be your best friend for this sort of thing."

    I understand how useful this could be but I hate this advice for 3 reasons:

    -not every phone can take a photosphere

    -the constant advice for photospheres has led many reviewers to expect a photosphere, and give 1* to something that should have 3* location

    -photospheres can be faked

  • LemoMcLemonFaceLemoMcLemonFace ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2019

    Every phone with a camera, can take photospheres.

  • ZennZenn ✭✭✭✭

    When the end result is helping someone, then the advice that works is the best advice.


    >>Not every phone can take a photosphere.

    -understood. not every phone can play ingress either, or even activate the stock camera to submit POI. that doesn't mean they shouldn't consider finding other ways to do a photosphere, which is single handedly the best tool for getting trail portals accepted. (360 cameras, someone elses phone for photosphere submission, etc.)

    >>The constant advice for photospheres has led many reviewers to expect a photosphere, and give 1* to something that should have 3* location

    -i understand the need to try to detangle the culture of OPR logically. i agree that in some cases 3* makes sense instead of 1* but i will make the case that without photospheres everyone would one star instead of 3 star anyway. photospheres were the way to break that wall... and while i agree with you in principle, i feel the ends justify the means because no one is going to switch to 3 stars without them unfortunately.

    >>Photospheres can be faked

    Anything can be faked. there is no suggestion i can make that can avoid this reality. Every aspect of a portal submission can be faked. if a spoofer is good enough it is IMPOSSIBLE for niantic to know due to the nature of client side reporting of GPS. cell tower data can be spoofed... photos can be fake camara inserted. there's no avoiding this. in the face of this im just going with what helps people... i happen to like trail portals. Photospheres are the best thing for these kinds of submissions.


    That being said - what you've posted needs to be seen. despite the fact that people will see it and be encouraged to look for how to fake photospheres, it also encourages the motivated OPR folk to look at tree species and surrounding information to decide if the photosphere is faked. Best we can do to try to get great portals into the game.

  • @LemoMcLemonFace

    I can take photospheres with my iPhone but every time I submit them it says “maps rejected” and doesn’t port to google maps or show on anyone else’s street view app either.


    So so just because the phone has a camera doesn’t mean it’s gonna work.

  • batteryAClDbatteryAClD ✭✭✭
    edited June 2019

    @CrimsonGrimoire Are you filling in the entire sphere? If you only do a "ring" type 360º panorama, it will be rejected by Google Maps. But if you get the sky and the ground too, then it should get accepted. Photospheres from my iPhone 7 taken using the Street View app all get accepted.

    Good luck. :)

  • @batteryAClD

    Aye, I take the full 360° top to bottom. Until I see the green check mark at the bottom. I was certain I was doing them right but maybe I’m not? If I take a pic with my 360° camera and import from my phone they go through but I’m not once had one taken on my phone get accepted.

  • PangarbanPangarban ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not with the streetview app anyway. It's not the camera that's the problem, it's the other sensors like an accelerometer. If your phone can't work with VR then it can't do photospheres.

  • LemoMcLemonFaceLemoMcLemonFace ✭✭✭✭

    Honor 9

    Galaxy s4

    Galaxy s3

    None work with vr to my knowledge, all could do spheres.

  • I've found that using Open Street Maps (OSM) will often help identify trails, trail names, possible marker locations (2 trails meet, names match submission details? pin close enough?). It's just a shame that stock OPR doesn't include an easy way to switch between Google Maps & OSM like some other tools do.

  • Did some digging into the issue. Took a photosphere on my old iPhone 7, it went through instantly. Took one on my current xs max, rejected. Someone posted that the resolution on xs and xs Max is too large and the street view app tries to compress it as it uploads causing it to stray from the acceptable criteria for the app and get instantly rejected.


    Looks like ill just have to keep my old phone with me when I need to submit photospheres.

  • LemoMcLemonFaceLemoMcLemonFace ✭✭✭✭

    I don't have a fruity device to test this, but when looking into the issue sometime back for some UK based submitters, everything I found linked it to the OS version aswell as the device.

    Has the new os been pushed out yet and if so, are both of your apple devices running the latest variant?

  • both are running the same and most current version of their operating system.

  • BarthaxBarthax ✭✭✭
    edited June 2019

    Actually multiple budget phones lack a compass/gyro functionality and cannot.

  • LemoMcLemonFaceLemoMcLemonFace ✭✭✭✭

    One example of an app that only needs a camera, no gyro etc.

    Software solutions have existed for many years.

  • LemoMcLemonFaceLemoMcLemonFace ✭✭✭✭

    That's a shame, hopefully enough noise is being caused that apple look into it.

  • TheFarixTheFarix ✭✭✭✭✭

    Aye, I take the full 360° top to bottom. Until I see the green check mark at the bottom. I was certain I was doing them right but maybe I’m not? If I take a pic with my 360° camera and import from my phone they go through but I’m not once had one taken on my phone get accepted.

    You only need to do three levels, eye level and one level above and below it. I also find it best to switch between clockwise and counterclockwise rotation as it reduces the error rate in the accelerator or compass. But there was one spot that took me several tries before I got a decent enough photosphere that was worth submitting to Google. Still, I'm wondering if it is worth investing in a 360 camera or if I can find another (cheaper) way to take better photospheres, like a monopod with a cellphone adapter on top.

  • Accer runs regular deals on their website on the holo360 for $50 regularly like $80. Every couple of weeks it seems it has a deal going. It’s cheap, takes a sim, runs android, can be used as a phone to make calls, downside is it’s got a small screen.

  • ReighElmosReighElmos ✭✭✭

    Yeah I got tired of taking 20 photos with my phone to make photo spheres, so I got a Samsung gear 360 to upload to google maps. It saves in an idea format for google maps and uploads twice as fast then trying to stitch the 20 photos together and uploading. A bit of a commitment but I have actually been able to get paid by a couple companies to take and upload 360° Photos of their locations. So the camera did end up paying for itself though I didn't expect it.

  • GlenuendoGlenuendo ✭✭✭✭

    @ReighElmos , I looked at that Gear 360 but if companies pay for photos, I may just get it. Sure doesn't hurt.

  • ReighElmosReighElmos ✭✭✭

    @Glenuendo You have to build your street view profile a bit, get local guide, then get trusted photographer. All in all is pretty easy when you visit a lot of locations playing Ingress and upload 360° photos. Just take a little extra work to market yourself as such but Google help a bit with that. They will even post your info to be searched by local businesses looking to make 360° for marketing.

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