Goodbye of a Vanguard

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Comments

  • Gawdly1Gawdly1 ✭✭

    You are right @Areaisis that Yes indeed, GOOGLE Inc,Ltd,LLC, etc etc is the umbrella corporation for Nianticlabs , Ingress.com. PokeMonGo, and many other gaming franchises , and Internet companies, & offshoots.. I wouldn’t say that they are “Trolling” the Vanguard forum, but rather expressing their opinion about research that they may have done or things they may have heard from other ingress agents about the Vanguard System.

    I think that this person may have meant that on the part about “Metadata” , (and the collection analytical data, telemetry data, locations) “MY WORDS” so on, and so forth is a known fact that any global conglomerate such as google, and all its subsidiaries “ ingress prime, Harry Potter, etc...That all users (Players) Data, metadata, and other forms of things collected inside these programs that a person even with moderate computing skillZ really has NO IDEA that all of the viable data of relevance is sold to Governments, and marketing, and Ad companies for a pretty penny...

    To the point of this Thread is that there are certain reasons why you MUST sign an N-D-A to be a Vanguard, and if you break the rules of it there really are repercussions I sure as heck wouldn’t want to suffer... Plus I don’t want the extra responsibilities that go along with all that mess with the fact there is no monetary gain. So plainly put. The Vanguard system is put in place to give a tiny bit of incentive like a “badge” but at a price where if you mess up as a Vanguard you pay a real $$$-Price. A few of the Vanguards I’ve had to interact with on The opposing faction have been borderline bully’s to a point, and seem to get on a “Power-Trip”.... they think that they can scare or have more sway with Ingress/Niantic to take away a regular player’s privileges,,, Pffftt!!! lol. That’s what I think! I pay enough real money for in-Game items that no Vanguard on an EGO TRIP is going to worry me, otherwise if I was scared I wouldn’t even be commenting about Vanguards, and the scare tactics they use in my area in RL...lol

    So I’d like to hear in your OWN WORDS @Azhreia, and, or @Hosette what the Vanguard system is all about. So Please, Do Not copy, and paste from the Vanguard section, I’ve already read everything there is to know from Niantic/Ingress’s formal aspect to the whole... It would be much appreciated for you to enlighten me on this aspect... just remember though. (I live here, and you live wherever). Things are never the same....

  • AreaisisAreaisis ✭✭

    Well well said @Gawdly1. It’s nice to see someone who is enlightened with “public “ information. @Azhreia all your question’s are easily to research on your own time and not for me to persuade you to believe anything said. Truth is your quest if you really want to know. @Hosette it’s your free will to call it as you see it. What is Illuminati? Are they an enlightened thinkers or trolls?

  • Gawdly1Gawdly1 ✭✭

    And on one last note I’m not arguing with anyone on here, and I’m just stating FACTS, and also my opinions.

    If people truly knew what they were getting into when signing a LEGAL NDA Clause you would most likely think twice because of the legalities to what may or may not happen depending on the vanguard, and how mature they may be, and wether or not they know what could happen for ex. “ if they were to even tell a bestie or even a family member about the things that only that vanguard and Niantic/Ingress have discussed, and came to an understanding about the NDA”

    Anyways, BETTER YOU THAN ME!!

  • HosetteHosette ✭✭✭✭

    @Gawdly1 @Areaisis I'm not a vanguard so I'm not the target of your question about what their role is.

    As for Niantic ownership, they spun out from Alphabet and became an independent company in 2015. I am sure that Alphabet holds a decent-sized chunk of Niantic stock but they are no longer in a controlling position. You can, umm, google this yourself for confirmation.

    Also, your names sounded familiar so I went searching through chat logs and figured out why. I was recently helping a Pokemon Go player figure out which faction would be best for them given their play area, and I found this quote: "Over around [area redacted] there is a whole mess of green owned by Areaisis and Gawdly1." I assume you two are friends or family, since you seem to be on the same portals all of the time?

  • Aummm, I would have responded sooner... But, I am not easily persuaded to react. There is a law that I like to think that I do abide by which is, “Think before speaking”. Essentially meaning “choose your words wisely, and speak carefully.” Perhaps, @Hosette hasn’t applied themself to sufficiently surge down the rabbit hole to discover that, Niantic and Google are still affiliated with one another as resonated with my original post. Rather than staying on track of the topic of this discussion you found it more interesting to investigate and track @Gawdly1 and myself gameplay opposed to backing up your argument with solid facts. Instead , you compulsively attacked my comments assuming that I am “trolling”, and for what purpose? Attention?! Illuminati? Is that associated with enlightenment? I’m not sure if I should be offended or honored. 🤨

    There is currently a social dilemma between the internet and Tech giants questioning their integrity which resulted In the polarization between, Niantic and Google+ and therefore, not from Googles platform. Otherwise, Niantic wouldn’t have the rights to use Google maps platform and Google analytics to track agents location, meta-data, etc. An infringement upon users privacy were violated around the same time Niantic ‘supposedly’ went independent escaping judiciary reprimands. Hence, why Niantic has to give all users their data records upon request.

    Here is a quote in an online article “ Niantic Labs announced today on its Google+ page that it would be leaving Google to take its "unique blend of exploration and fun to even bigger audiences." Google won't be ending its relationship with Niantic Labs completely — the Ingress creator says Google will remain as collaborators and backers"along with some amazing new partners." https://www.theverge.com/2015/8/12/9145693/niantic-labs-leaves-google-independent-ingress

    Therefore, Google is grandfathered in and will remain without transparency behind the scenes.

  • Point is the author of this discussion expressed that their contract was not meeting their expectations and, perhaps, realizing Niantic and Google use it’s subscribers to work free while they (NIA & Google) get away without having to employ field workers when they can award players a badge for their “contributions”, thus creating a false sense of value

    Niantic left G+ because the forum was forced to close shop for good.

    @Azhreia and @Hosette

  • MoogModularMoogModular ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bumping a topic 2 months later to be confidently incorrect. Impressive.

    Google provided angel investing to Niantic, specifically towards Pokemon Go, when the companies separated back in October 2015. Since then, the only thing involved is your OAuth ID that utilizes your Google account which can be switched to Facebook or Apple as they are also OAuth compatible.

  • HosetteHosette ✭✭✭✭

    @Areaisis writes: "Hence, why Niantic has to give all users their data records upon request."

    Actually, that is from the European GDPR law. Niantic is choosing to honor GDPR requests worldwide but they are only required to comply when the request comes from residents of Europe. (It may just be citizens, but I think it applies to all residents.)

    Alphabet is a minority shareholder in Niantic-- I believe they own around 6% of the company. I do not believe that Alphabet is actively involved in the operations of Niantic and I don't think they have a seat on the board of directors-- they just own stock. So, when you say "NIA & Google" you are not speaking accurately. If being a stock holder was considered "being affiliated with" a company then I would be affiliated with Apple, Berkshire Hathaway, and several other companies. As it is I just have a few shares of their stock tucked into my retirement portfolio.

  • PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15

    @Areaisis

    Therefore, Google is grandfathered in and will remain without transparency behind the scenes.

    False.

    Google retains a 20% (or less I think now) shareholder because it created the company in the first place. And as a pure investment shareholder, it has no involvement in the operational business, no control over the data flow in or out of Niantic, and has otherwise isolated itself from Niantic, to the point of removing Niantic's rights to use Google assets without a customer relationship.

    Google's only involvement is because they put up the seed money in the first place. They have no access to the Niantic data, nor does Niantic sell location data to any outside parties. If you want to make spurious attacks, maybe you should first learn the other guideline beside "think before you speak", which is "Back up your claims or you will be shot down in flames."

    @Gawdly1

    You are right @Areaisis that Yes indeed, GOOGLE Inc,Ltd,LLC, etc etc is the umbrella corporation for Nianticlabs , Ingress.com. PokeMonGo, and many other gaming franchises , and Internet companies, & offshoots.. 

    Actually he's not. Niantic Labs is not a subsidiary of Alphabet Inc any more than The Pokemon Go company is. The fact that Google Inc, a subsidiary of the Alphabet Inc owns a small stake in Niantic is due to historical financial arrangements. Google Inc is an investor only, and AFAIK not a voting shareholder either.

    The fact is that Niantic Labs only real relationship with Google with regards to data, is the use of Google services such as the Google OAuth, the Google Cloud and AppEngine. And in this they are no different from any other company that uses Google Cloud Services.

    There is no conspiracy. There is no secret backroom deals.

    Niantic doesn't make it's money from Vanguards, selling data, or any other nonsense. It makes its money from providing games in which people buy things like Incubators and Raid passes constantly. It doesn't need to go into dangerous privacy territory, because the revelation would be more of a financial loss to Niantic than any of the gains it might otherwise make.

    Please take your absurd nonsense to Reddit or Twitter. Those places are made for your crazy rants.

  • PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NianticCasey Can we get "****" (u n h i n g e d) removed from the naughty list. It has such potential here.

  • AreaisisAreaisis ✭✭
    edited September 15

    @Hosette @perriaque @azhakima We people do the strangest things to get a reactions from participants on forums such as this one. It’s good for audiences and participation. Drama draws in an audience and entices participants whether it’s positive or negative Propaganda at its finest.

    Hope you like as if your mind is like a parachute, as we all know closed parachute work more efficiently when open..👇🏻

    What if we que in Mr. John Hanke himself and have him lecture us all who are contributing towards this discussion, to explain his career history with Google and why Niantic (CEO John Hanke) sued Google++ in 2019 ?

    “Global++, an unauthorized third-party software created by an "association of hackers" which allowed players to spoof their GPS location for the purpose of cheating in Niantic's augmented reality games, including Ingress and Pokémon Go”

    “Google's announcement of its restructuring as Alphabet Inc. During the spinout, Niantic announced that GoogleNintendo, and The Pokémon Company would invest up to $30 million in Series-A funding, $20 million upfront and the remaining $10 million in financing conditioned upon the company achieving certain milestones, to support the growth of the company and its products”

    “Niantic claimed that the hacked versions of the applications were infringing on their intellectual property rights. The developer of Global++ earned money by selling subscriptions and asking for donations via the hacked apps. This resulted in Niantic forcing the developers to terminate their illegitimate distributions of the hacked apps and reverse engineering the games' codes. Eventually Global++ had to shut down their services, PokeGo++ and Ingress++, (hence the creation of ingress prime)and their social media services.“

    smh, “1999, Keyhole, Inc., was created headed by John Hanke.Keyhole then developed a way to stream large databases of mapping data over the internet to client software, a key part of the technology, John Hanke is known for Google Earth”

    ”The core technology behind Google Earth was originally developed at Intrinsic Graphics in the late 1990s. At the time, the company was developing 3D gaming software libraries.As a demo of their 3D software, they created a spinning globe that could be zoomed into, similar to the Powers of Ten film.The demo was popular, but the board of Intrinsic wanted to remain focused on gaming, so in 1999, they created Keyhole, Inc., headed by John Hanke.Keyhole then developed a way to stream large databases of mapping data over the internet to client software, a key part of the technology,and acquired patchworks of mapping data from governments and other sources.”

    “Keyhole was soon contacted by the Central Intelligence Agency's venture capital firm, In-Q-Tel,and the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency,[10] for use with defense mapping databases, which gave Keyhole a much-needed cash infusion. Intrinsic Graphics was sold in 2003 to Vicarious Visions after its gaming libraries did not sell well, and its core group of engineers and management transitioned to Keyhole with Hanke remaining at the head.“

    “Hanke joined Google as a part of Keyhole's acquisition, and he became the Vice President of Product Management for the Geo division.During this period, he oversaw the transformation of Keyhole's technology into Google Earth and Google Maps in 2005. He also negotiated an agreement to include Google Maps on the iPhone. Other significant products followed, including StreetViewSketchUp, and Panoramio. During this period, he shaped a team he would later use to form Niantic.”

     “Google's Alphabet doesn't include N for Niantic Labs“ “...Alphabet is cutting Niantic loose..” Hanke Google++ lawsuit? “There's a possibility that Alphabet has no places for augmented reality gaming or tourist apps in a mega-company focused mostly on ad revenue..” Google created Alphabet too? 🧐 “Google will ‘stick around’ as a supporter...” $$$$!

    Google maps, Gmail, Google Earth are still used by Niantic for gameplay despite Hanke lawsuit (class action lawsuit). ?

    Furthermore: “Before Niantic Labs CEO John Hanke was the man behind an unfathomably popular smartphone goldmine, he ran Google’s Geo division, responsible for nearly everything locational at a time when the search company was turning into much more, expanding away from cataloging the web and towards cataloging every city block on the planet. Hanke landed at Google after his wildly popular (and admittedly very neat) CIA-funded company Keyhole, which collected geographic imagery, was acquired in 2004 and relaunched as Google Earth in 2005. By 2007, Hanke was running basically everything at Google that involved a map. In a 2007 Wiredprofile, (“Google Maps Is Changing the Way We See the World”) Hanke was lauded as a pioneer (“Led by John Hanke, Google Earth and Google Maps are delivering cartography tools to the masses”) and deified, appearing in photo with an enormous globe across his shoulders.”

    , Google Earth and Google Maps are delivering cartography tools to the masses”) and deified, appearing in photo with an

    “Before Niantic Labs CEO John Hanke was the man behind an unfathomably popular smartphone goldmine, he ran Google’s Geo division, responsible for nearly everything locational at a time when the search company was turning into much more, expanding away from cataloging the web and towards cataloging every city block on the planet. Hanke landed at Google after his wildly popular (and admittedly very neat) CIA-funded company Keyhole, which collected geographic imagery, was acquired in 2004 and relaunched as Google Earth in 2005. By 2007, Hanke was running basically everything at Google that involved a map. In a 2007 Wiredprofile, (“Google Maps Is Changing the Way We See the World”) Hanke was lauded as a pioneer (“Led by John Hanke, Google Earth and Google Maps are delivering cartography tools to the masses”) and deified, appearing in photo with an enormous globe across his shoulders.

    It was an exciting time for Google. Google Maps had become indispensable, dumping the likes of MapQuest into obsolescence, and Google had great ambitions for turning surroundings into revenue. But before Google could sell the world back to its inhabitants, it needed to digitize it; around the world, fleets of sensor-laden Google cars roamed cities, back roads, and highways, snapping photos of buildings, posts, trees, and other features. Each vehicle was labeled a Street View Car by Google, a reference to the Street View feature their pictures enabled on Google Maps. Google shared Street View imagery widely via an application programming interface, or API, and among the apps that owe a debt of gratitude to Street View Cars is Pokemon Go.

    Then, in April 2010, Germany’s data protection commissioner announced that Google vehicles had been illegally collecting Wi-Fi data. Further regulatory scrutiny and corroborating news reports eked out the truth: As they drove, Street View Cars were swallowing up traffic from unencrypted wireless networks. Germany’s federal privacy czar, Peter Schaar, said he was “horrified” and “appalled.”

    It eventually emerged that, in the U.S. alone, this collection went on for more than two years. The scandal, referred to as the “Wi-Spy” case as it was unfolding, resulted in:It was an exciting time for Google. Google Maps had become indispensable, dumping the likes of MapQuest into obsolescence, and Google had great ambitions for turning surroundings into revenue. But before Google could sell the world back to its inhabitants, it needed to digitize it; around the world, fleets of sensor-laden Google cars roamed cities, back roads, and highways, snapping photos of buildings, posts, trees, and other features. Each vehicle was labeled a Street View Car by Google, a reference to the Street View feature their pictures enabled on Google Maps. Google shared Street View imagery widely via an application programming interface, or API, and among the apps that owe a debt of gratitude to Street View Cars is Pokemon Go

    It eventually emerged that, in the U.S. alone, this collection went on for more than two years. The scandal, referred to as the “Wi-Spy” case as it was unfolding, resulted in:

    “The scandal, referred to as the “Wi-Spy” case as it was unfolding, resulted in:

    • Findings that Wi-Fi traffic collection was illegal by authorities in the United KingdomFranceCanadaSouth Korea, and New Zealand.
    • A bruising Federal Communications Commission investigation, which followed a director’s comment that Google’s activity “clearly infringes on consumer privacy” and which resulted in a $25,000 fine.
    • A Department of Justice wiretapping investigation.
    • A federal class-action case against Google, ongoing to this day, in which a district and appeals court have both ruled, against the company’s arguments, that the sort of data Google accessed is protected from interception under the U.S. Wiretap Act. (The Supreme Court has declined to hear Google’s appeal.)
    • Lawsuits brought by authorities in Spain.
    • Regulator intervention in Italy and Hungary.
    • And a government investigation in Germany.”


    “ALL OF THIS happened while John Hanke led the Geo division, including Street View and Maps, as vice president for product management. Google eventually imposed a set of privacy reforms, but it’s unclear, even before those changes, why no one intervened when engineers spoke openly about collecting the internet traffic of strangers. It may have had to do with the culture inside Google;”


    Is it me who is wrong? Or the ones reading? ✌🏻



    Post edited by Areaisis on
  • Perhaps you should review the post and edit in some paragraphs as it looks the copy-paste went wrong somehow.

    That drama thing... I like it :D

  • PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NianticCasey ****? (d r a m a q u e e n) we're doing drama and queen pairs now?

  • AreaisisAreaisis ✭✭
    edited September 15

    Is this a bashing contest? Defamation of character? I don’t believe that I have mentioned any thing derogatory towards anyone in this discussion and expect the same respect. Arrogance is a vice not a virtue. I’m an adult who can carry on an adult conversation without resorting to virtual verbal abuse, because you don’t agree with my opinions. I’m going to ignore that you exist in the discussion.

  • @GoblinGranate meh, I rather keep it as is and let the audience assume I’m ignorant. Lol. Dumbing it down isn’t such a bad thing. The post did prove a point. I am certain they didn’t even know who the CEO is. The topic of the discussion is perfect, because the vanguard attempt failed ingress completely and should go Bye Bye. In my area we don’t have a vanguard because they were caught using bots. It is how it is. Maybe Niantic should readjust their system and make players pay a yearly fee too keep out the cheaters that way vanguards are useless and a waste of time.

  • PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15

     I’m an adult who can carry on an adult conversation

    Your entire contribution to this thread is evidence to the contrary.

    • Spurious claims
    • Ignoring responses
    • Unfounded claims
    • Fallacious connections between unrelated events
    • Outright lies to support argument.

    Arrogance is a vice not a virtue.

    And yet, you are working off the assumption that you are right, and have no requirement to prove it, because you can spout random events.

  • HosetteHosette ✭✭✭✭

    I sometimes debate clueless people online not because I hope to persuade them, but because I want to make sure that other people don't fall for the falsehoods.

  • MoogModularMoogModular ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sir, this is a Wen--a discussion forum about Ingress Prime.

    We can argue about Hanke's involvement with Google Maps at another place where you'll be corrected anyways.

    He definitely isn't involve with Google Maps heavily for a while now especially when API costs went through the roof to use GMaps as base layers. A lot of companies switched to OSM or Swarm/Foursquare Maps.

  • mortuusmortuus ✭✭✭✭✭

    what will happen with the vanguard program without a global community manager ? seems things are quiet when krug left last year...

  • Feels like requiring Vanguards to get tickets resolved is not very effective. Sometimes it even feels like there is no Service Desk at Niantic and Vanguards and Trusted Reporters are the only ones resolving this kind of issues. I even believe TR and VG are the same people xD

    Not sure what will happen, I don't think the program is completely useless, it just feels useless, idk

  • AzhreiaAzhreia ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can assure you TR and VG are not the same people.

  • AreaisisAreaisis ✭✭
    edited September 16

    Is that why you behave like troll because you can’t control your emotional feeling towards members of the community who has a different perspective than yourself? I could be the CEO or a relative of him. And, here you have clearly allowed your personal feeling to get in the way to have the ability to discern the subject wisely. It’s true to what they say, “Silence is golden”.

    Your troll attempts don’t phase me, nor do I “feel” like you’re half-witted, I know you’re. You’re in your own Selfs way therefore, you see others the way you see yourself.

  • AreaisisAreaisis ✭✭
    edited September 16

    @MoogModular Perhaps you’re right. Although, my original comment was not about G’maps. Originally, I was commenting on the authors testimony of why they no longer want to be part of the VG program. In so many words, the author of this discussion basically expressed how the VG program went to hell in a hand basket. However, I took it to the next level and it apparently got a few of the participants (@Hosette @Perringaiden @Azhreia) panties in a bunch and let their “feelings” and self appointed opinions to stray off topic and direct the attention towards me. There is always another side behind the transparency that lamebrain minds cannot distinguish between the real from the unreal, because they believe everything they hear instead of questioning. Not one person here questioned my reasoning instead they jumped on attack mode. BTW, it’s not “Sir” it’s Ma’am.

  • HosetteHosette ✭✭✭✭

    @Areaisis As Daniel Patrick Moynahan so eloquently put it, "Everyone is entitled to (their) own opinion, but not (their) own facts." Your posts have been rife with factual inaccuracies, and you use them to build specious arguments. The vast majority of the words I've written in response to you have been highlighting the places in which you have facts completely wrong.

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