Wintrade. Allowed or not? (outside XF-event)

liyu1liyu1 ✭✭✭

Is this wintrade or not:

RES-player and ENL are very good friends with each other. And go for a short walk / biking/ drive together (proof in the COMM) .

RES player needs to do fielding , score AP, and is quite active. ENL-player plays very rarely (only opens the game to bring down 2 or 3 strategic RES portals). Their area is mostly blue all the time. Here, they follow the same route for a little while. (also proof I got in the COMM, ENL destroys, RES immediately captures portal and fields from there).

This happened a couple of times in the past and always outside XF events and always these 2 players.

Is this kind of gameplay allowed (outside XF events)? Is it worth to report it?

Comments

  • GoblinGranateGoblinGranate ✭✭✭✭

    Wintrade? Yes.

    Allowed? No.

    Worth the report? No.

    There has never been a ban because of wintrading, only community bans. It is ok if they are friends, not anyone else business, but if ENL player rarely plays, then it's obvious that RES player requested his actions and that is what wintrade is about, it has been agreed.

    Take my advice and let it be, just don't forget the names.

  • It's not allowed, but it won't lead your account to be banned. Also, you'll not receive any response of reporting win tradings ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • KhatreKhatre ✭✭✭✭

    they don't even ban the obvious spoof so ....

  • cheatchcheatch ✭✭✭

    They could fix win trading by capping the maximum amount of AP you can gain from a portal within a day.

  • IIRC, win-trading has been folded under "unsportsmanlike" behaviour.

    The reason being that the line between win-trading and normal gameplay is too blurry to be useful.

  • GoblinGranateGoblinGranate ✭✭✭✭

    Is not that blurry, any agreed gameplay between factions can be considered Wintrade, that's why Niantic excluded events.

    But how do you prove that it was arranged? You just can't, that's why the only punishment possible comes from community itself.

  • PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any sort of coordinated play outside of sanctioned events, between two factions, is win trading. If it has a negative impact on the game, it's cheating.

    • Two players completing missions that require capture together - Meh, it's win trading, but it's minimal impact and has a positive impact on play.
    • Two players deploying low level resonators in order for the other to destroy cap with low level resonators etc, is win trading for AP ****. Impact is likely low but it's definitely edging towards negative impacts.
    • One faction player clearing links to the opposite faction can make a field, definitely win trading. If the field is for 'art' and has minimal score impact, meh. If the field is to win the cycle score, ban the players involved.
  • PerringaidenPerringaiden ✭✭✭✭✭

    How is **** a swear word... g r i n d i n g

    @NianticCasey

  • MoogModularMoogModular ✭✭✭✭✭

    Because the word filter is horrible, look at their announcement from yesterday - out of all of the words possible, b i s e x u a l got flagged

  • HosetteHosette ✭✭✭✭

    @MoogModular That's OK, I flag too so I don't mind Niantic doing it. I don't know what asterisks in the left back pocket mean, though. Maybe wants to censor vs right pocket wants to be censored? (-:

    Win-trading seems to fall into two different categories. One is players of opposite teams sort of helping each other out, to their mutual benefit. For example, there's a high-turnover area near where I live, the sort of area that people microfield for AP. A player of the other faction works in that area. It's pretty common for her to build it up and for me to smash it later that day not because I want to help her out, though I know it helps her, but because I'm hunting the purifier badge. In this case we are both doing things for our own benefit, but we also know that our actions the other player. Some people would label that win-trading, but at most I would call it "soft" win-trading.

    There's also much more explicit win-trading. Imagine I'm sitting at a stack of portals with a player of the opposite faction. They build and link those portals then I immediately smash them and build/link them. Lather, rinse, repeat for the next half hour or until we have both earned the badges we're aiming for. That's pretty explicit, and I'd call that "hard" win-trading.

    The thing about the first case I described is that it applies to a whole lot of Ingress play, and not doing it would constrain the game. If I knew that an opponent was trying to get a builder badge then avoiding soft win-trading would mean that I couldn't ever smash up anything that they built. In fact, I did a lot of exactly that this year. There's a player in San Francisco who loves to build up a dense area of about 75-80 portals. He's an extremely active builder, probably one of the top in the world. Before the pandemic hit I was trying to hit double onyx purifier before I got onyx builder, so a few times per week I would swing through and flatten his stuff. I did it for purely selfish reasons, but I knew perfectly well that he would rebuild it right after I was done. Is that win-trading, or is it just acting in my own self-interest even though a side effect is helping out a member of the other team?

  • DSkatauriDSkatauri ✭✭✭

    Actually wintrade is bad,if it's wintrade not coincedence. Actually multiaccount is bad. Actually spoofing is bad.

    Nia don't care.Try to report and see.

  • Novoca1neNovoca1ne ✭✭✭
    edited June 17

    We've got two cases here in Canberra Australia.

    Case 1: Husband and Wife. Wife flipped and now they spend their time helping each other out. They always play together. They have even tried to prevent a RES agent from getting Onyx Mind Controller by working together to block his fielding area. Purely being done out of spite and the fact she wants to beat him.

    Case 2: ENL/RES friends working together. ENL agent dropping links/fields while RES agent throws blockers and flips portals preventing original links being rethrow. RES agent then bafs which they wouldn't have been able to do without the assistance of their ENL friend.

  • Nobody is going to be banned for wintrading. Spoofing - yes report. Multi-accounting - yes report. Wintrading - don’t bother and MYOB. 🤷‍♀️

  • Case you described isn't win-trading. Until you talk with opponent when he will build and when should you come - it's fair play to observe intel and smash it when it's convinient for you. IN real war it's called tactic to observe enemy and use their mistakes for own profit. I have few active opponents in my area. As we know - we got mails with information about attack and exact time. You can use simple filters with your mail client to decide at which hour, where you enemy will be with information you got past few days. Just observe.

  • InerasIneras ✭✭✭

    A vanguard I spoke with this year said while win trading is no longer a violation of the Terms of Service, it is still an offense. Anecdotes suggest otherwise, and I've met people claiming it is fine now. The absence of win trading under cheating in Niantic Player Guidelines is further proof that, unsportsmanlike or not, it will be disregarded.

    Today, five players made a total of 12.8 million AP capturing and destroying a cluster of seven portals. Did this harm anyone? Not that I'm aware of. Did they break any rules? I don't think so. The logs clearly show what they were doing, and their AP gains were posted on the IFS scoreboard. No one blinked an eye.

  • AzhreiaAzhreia ✭✭✭✭✭

    Actually, it's still considered cheating. Just because NIA removed the actual wording in their guidelines doesn't make it ok.

  • InerasIneras ✭✭✭

    May I ask you what the difference between considered cheating and actual cheating is? How do you report something that has been removed from the ToS and guidelines? The Ingress community may deem what is OK or not, but I am asking whether win trading is a ban-worthy offense anymore.

  • AzhreiaAzhreia ✭✭✭✭✭

    You report it the same way you report other cheating. Supply the IGNs, a link to the portal/area and the date and time with timezone where it's happening.

  • ClutterCutterClutterCutter ✭✭✭

    Did anyone ever get banned for this?


    i still maintain everyone should just play their own game and not worry about what doesn’t affect you. Someone spoofs down one of your. BAFs? Yeah that’s worth saying something.

  • InerasIneras ✭✭✭

    Thank you for your reply.


    I doubt they ever will get banned. I wanted to know what the official stance on win trading is after Niantic redefined cheating.

  • GoblinGranateGoblinGranate ✭✭✭✭

    I am genuinely interested in every single detail about this.

    Please, teach me, master!

  • liyu1liyu1 ✭✭✭

    Indeed. don't need to ask your oponents to destroy. be smart. know your area. and even when you have no oponents, be smart in your fielding, so u can still field.

  • Ingress gameplay works by wintrading. Best way not do do it is simply not playing, as you might benefit an opposite faction player. 🤣

  • liyu1liyu1 ✭✭✭

    If only the opposite faction would field a bit better (i.e. making nice multilayers) then i would come by myself to destroy it 🤣

  • GoblinGranateGoblinGranate ✭✭✭✭

    Smart players can always take advantage on any action. IT is your concept of "advantage" what makes the difference.

    Ingress relies on battle and teamwork, the concept of Wintrade is very clear since it requires agreement. But how to prove it? It's impossible, that's why it's not punished.

  • AkceptorUAAkceptorUA ✭✭✭✭

    Given:

    • a portal(s) owned by the opposite faction
    • you know that an opposite faction player is nearby so if you destroy and capture - he will do the same

    Question :what should you do?

    • just quit playing and move to another place?
    • destroy and capture regardless the fact an opponent will re-capture in 5 minutes?
  • GoblinGranateGoblinGranate ✭✭✭✭

    You are cleary missing out the AGREEMENT part. Wintrade requires agreement. No agreement, no wintrade.

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